Chris Horner

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I'm not looking for him to be convicted in a criminal or sports law sense. Not getting a media opportunity is not like being banned from sports and having results stripped. The standard of proof for the latter is fairly high, and it should be so. The standard of proof for the former doesn't have to be as high. Some parties I consider credible have raised enough suspicion that I don't care to see Horner.

You don't care to watch coverage of a sport chock full of dopers because it is accompanied by the commentary of a guy who probably doped?

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

He was also the oldest Grand Tour winner ever. Riders that old just don't win Grand Tours.

idk I'm not an expert but I don't see why it's inconceivable for someone around 40 to win a GT. Lots of things can happen in a race that long.

[weisan]

At their levels, are we not talking about "marginal gains"?

Go find me another 41-yr-old that can win a grand tour simply by getting the best doctors...

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

You don't care to watch coverage of a sport chock full of dopers because it is accompanied by the commentary of a guy who probably doped?

[charliedid]

I don't care one way or the other but viewership might go up if all the commentators did bong hits to start the broadcast. They should also have guest appearances by celebrity commentators who know nothing about the sport. Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir would be my first choice.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

idk I'm not an expert but I don't see why it's inconceivable for someone around 40 to win a GT. Lots of things can happen in a race that long.

The laundry list of far more accomplished Grand Tour riders who have never even gotten close to winning one at that age is, well, pretty much all of them.

So we're supposed to credulously say a guy who never sniffed a Grand Tour podium in his supposed prime suddenly not only wins, but dominates, the hilliest Grand Tour around? And at 41, when a guy like Anquetil had already been retired for, what, 5 years?

Nah, that dog don't hunt.

[sfo1]

Maybe we can get Tyler on board to channel his inner Tugboat?

What was the issue with Horner again?

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

You don't care to watch coverage of a sport chock full of dopers because it is accompanied by the commentary of a guy who YOU ASSUME doped?

[glepore]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

Okay. By extension, there are dopers managing teams, there are dopers who own teams, there are dopers who are team sponsors, and there are already dopers in the broadcast booth.

What I don’t get (here) is the energy tossed at Horner - for what? People don’t like his voice? His personality? They don’t like the rumors associated with him?

When the sport burns to the ground, if it gets resurrected by good people with spines, and a moral compass, maybe we’ll find the one guy who can sit next to Phil.

Yeah...he just did his thing, loved racing his bike, hung on as long as he could. He didn't flip on anyone, even though apparently USADA could pressure him. So on a basic level, the haters more or less want to say no bike racing occurred in the epo era.

Got news for you guys-Merkcx, the greatest of all time, likely had Belgian Pot (look it up) in his bottles, as did his contemporaries. The sport was and likely is dirty.

The best quote is Tyler's (and I'll never forgive him for swearing on Tugboats grave, that's the one unpardonable thing that happened) is no can do on pane and aqua. Same as it ever was.

[trener1]

I couldn't have said to better.
Did Horner dope, most likely yes, but so did Indurain, Mercx, Froome, etc... so I dont get this double standard and hate towards Chris, it all seems a bit hypocritical to me, meanwhile CVV is in the Broadcast Booth and Hincapie has a pro team and a huge Gran Fondo, I dont hear any outcry about either of those guys.

Originally Posted by glepore

Yeah...he just did his thing, loved racing his bike, hung on as long as he could. He didn't flip on anyone, even though apparently USADA could pressure him. So on a basic level, the haters more or less want to say no bike racing occurred in the epo era.

Got news for you guys-Merkcx, the greatest of all time, likely had Belgian Pot (look it up) in his bottles, as did his contemporaries. The sport was and likely is dirty.

The best quote is Tyler's (and I'll never forgive him for swearing on Tugboats grave, that's the one unpardonable thing that happened) is no can do on pane and aqua. Same as it ever was.

[Matthew]

Why do we really give such a fork? We all know most if not all riders from that era doped. Certainly the top levels guys most likely did. And hell, many of the women were doing it. Pros have been doing it for decades. Some get free passes while others are vilified. We all love bikes, most of us love racing and watching racing. I couldn't care less who commentates. In fact I loved Phil and Paul. Relax folks. It's cycling on tv. Isn't that good enough?

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by trener1

...
Did Horner dope, most likely yes, but so did Indurain, Mercx, Froome, etc... so I dont get this double standard and hate towards Chris...

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

If the doping is an issue, despite Horner not having tested positive, then where is the outcry for CVV who did dope and did get a suspension for doping. He's been commentating for years now...

Originally Posted by glepore

Yeah...he just did his thing, loved racing his bike, hung on as long as he could. He didn't flip on anyone, even though apparently USADA could pressure him. So on a basic level, the haters more or less want to say no bike racing occurred in the epo era.

Got news for you guys-Merkcx, the greatest of all time, likely had Belgian Pot (look it up) in his bottles, as did his contemporaries. The sport was and likely is dirty.

The best quote is Tyler's (and I'll never forgive him for swearing on Tugboats grave, that's the one unpardonable thing that happened) is no can do on pane and aqua. Same as it ever was.

If the best argument you all can make for Horner is a logical fallacy (specifically, tu quoque, or I haven't heard you condemn all the other guys), then yours is the weaker argument.

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

...
What I don’t get (here) is the energy tossed at Horner - for what? People don’t like his voice? His personality? They don’t like the rumors associated with him?
...

And what I don't get here is how some people are overly willing to look the other way and to question the motives of the guys who can't.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Why do we really give such a fork? We all know most if not all riders from that era doped. Certainly the top levels guys most likely did. And hell, many of the women were doing it. Pros have been doing it for decades. Some get free passes while others are vilified. We all love bikes, most of us love racing and watching racing. I couldn't care less who commentates. In fact I loved Phil and Paul. Relax folks. It's cycling on tv. Isn't that good enough?

Agree...it's about men and women racing toys...not some grand debate about things that really make a difference. Or who's 'right' or 'wrong' or indignant or critical enough or winning or losing some 'argument'..........yikes.

I'd rather listen to Horner than CVV....I like Bobke...I guess the only 'medicating' he did was alcohol and probably weed...

[marciero]

Originally Posted by glepore

...
The best quote is Tyler's (and I'll never forgive him for swearing on Tugboats grave, that's the one unpardonable thing that happened) is no can do on pane and aqua. Same as it ever was.

Pretty sure Anquetil said that first. It may even go back earlier than that.

[crankles]

Originally Posted by wallymann

i get the negative sentiment, but this is how i feel -- horner knows racing, he he knows tactics and race dynamics, he's entertaining...lets see how he does.

I argee. He sees the races within the race better than most, has been pretty frank..and correct.. in post race inteviews when describing the squabbles between race directors *deals* about which riders should be or not be sent up into the road...etc. I look forward to this. And while I like J-Pow plenty,
He doesn't get road racing, especially 3 week tours, like Horner.

[54ny77]

Originally Posted by charliedid

I don't care one way or the other but viewership might go up if all the commentators did bong hits to start the broadcast. They should also have guest appearances by celebrity commentators who know nothing about the sport. Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir would be my first choice.