Chris Horner

[rwsaunders]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

If the doping is an issue, despite Horner not having tested positive, then where is the outcry for CVV who did dope and did get a suspension for doping. He's been commentating for years now.

None of these guys are saints. It's going to be a long and silent broadcast if you want someone holding the mic who's got a mellifluous voice, and knows his stuff, and has never crossed the line.

I'm a fan of this news of Chris being hired.

I was waiting for someone to call out the CVV doping reference as there seems to be no opposition to his spot on the broadcast team. In terms of the pro teams, there aren’t too many clean DS’s either, so I just go with the flow and enjoy the scenery.

[54ny77]

I bet the audience for pro cycling in the U.S. is huge. There might even be a few thousand people watching the big races.

The fact that it's on at all is a minor miracle. I'd take Horner commentating all day long. He's always been outspoken and fun to watch.

[weisan]

Ever since the mob crowd attacked my cycling commenting Patron Saint Phil Liggett, I have lost all respect and consideration for who they think should be in the commentator box. Some things are sacred.

[KJMUNC]

Cue the angry mob, but LA has demonstrated his ability to commentate, at least via podcast. Can't wait to hear the back-biting that happens on this one....

[Bikeman7]

Anyone else like the Cycling Tips duo of Dave Everett and Caley Fretz? I think they’re a fabulous pair and are ready for prime time. They bring some much needed humor and irony to the race scene.

[sfo1]

CVV; caught doping, yet they never said a peep about him.
CH: never caught, yet treated worse than CVV.

Crap, even Lance hated CVV.

Watch it with the volume off.

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

where is the outcry for CVV who did dope and did get a suspension for doping. He's been commentating for years now.

[dave thompson]

Originally Posted by rwsaunders

I was waiting for someone to call out the CVV doping reference as there seems to be no opposition to his spot on the broadcast team. In terms of the pro teams, there aren’t too many clean DS’s either, so I just go with the flow and enjoy the scenery.

Hey, it’s the innerwebs, everyone gets their shorts in a knot about something. Like researching a new part for a bike, Horner is going to get analyzed to death.

[enr1co]

Originally Posted by sfo1

CVV; caught doping, yet they never said a peep about him.
CH: never caught, yet treated worse than CVV.

Watch it with the volume off.

Even if CVV was clean as a whistle, he and that Schalnger guy provide me my mute button workout

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

CVV did at least get roped into taking down Lance Armstrong, and he did receive a sanction for his own actions. I can live with CVV.

By contrast, Horner was never in the Motorola/Postal/Discovery cabal, always an outlier, never busted for doping, is a GT winner, and did all of it his way. He hasn’t even started the job. So what’s not to like or live with?

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

By contrast, Horner was never in the Motorola/Postal/Discovery cabal, always an outlier, never busted for doping, is a GT winner, and did all of it his way. He hasn’t even started the job. So what’s not to like or live with?

It's true he wasn't ever officially busted. However, after the 2013 Vuelta where some people expressed surprise at his performance. In response, Horner released a bunch of his biological passport data. In response, Robin Parisotto, who was on the biological passport committee at one point, said that the overall pattern was suspicious.

It's true that the UCI didn't flag Horner's passport for further review by people like Parisotto. However, they didn't flag Armstrong's 2009 passport either. Parisotto and one other expert criticized the UCI for that, saying that if they had been asked to review enough of his passport data, they would have found the sequence to be ... not normal.

Then, of course, he was dropped from the 2014 Vuelta team on account of low cortisol levels. These can indicate use of corticosteroids. Wiggins and others on Team Sky may have used them to drop weight, which is also against the rules.

I am frankly a bit surprised that you did not know this.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

CVV did at least get roped into taking down Lance Armstrong, and he did receive a sanction for his own actions. I can live with CVV.

Originally Posted by weiwentg

It's true he wasn't ever officially busted. However, after the 2013 Vuelta where some people expressed surprise at his performance. In response, Horner released a bunch of his biological passport data. In response, Robin Parisotto, who was on the biological passport committee at one point, said that the overall pattern was suspicious.

It's true that the UCI didn't flag Horner's passport for further review by people like Parisotto. However, they didn't flag Armstrong's 2009 passport either. Parisotto and one other expert criticized the UCI for that, saying that if they had been asked to review enough of his passport data, they would have found the sequence to be ... not normal.

Then, of course, he was dropped from the 2014 Vuelta team on account of low cortisol levels. These can indicate use of corticosteroids. Wiggins and others on Team Sky may have used them to drop weight, which is also against the rules.

I am frankly a bit surprised that you did not know this.

I did know this. But the yardstick most people use (me) is a positive, or maybe an admission. Without these, it’s just noise. He can’t be convicted or sanctioned for noise.

[choke]

I think it's a terrible choice but I'm not upset over it....I'm not going to see him in action so it has little bearing on my life.

Originally Posted by mtechnica

He’s the most famous American bike racer that hasn’t been caught doping and won’t say something that will potentially embarrass the network.

I would guess that Andy Hampsten holds that distinction.....though I imagine that he has no interest in being a commentator.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

I did know this. But the yardstick most people use (me) is a positive, or maybe an admission. Without these, it’s just noise. He can’t be convicted or sanctioned for noise.

I'm not looking for him to be convicted in a criminal or sports law sense. Not getting a media opportunity is not like being banned from sports and having results stripped. The standard of proof for the latter is fairly high, and it should be so. The standard of proof for the former doesn't have to be as high. Some parties I consider credible have raised enough suspicion that I don't care to see Horner.

I also consider the standard that you're applying to be way too low. The UCI has been trying pretty hard to look the other way for way too long. Hence, relying on positive tests that they adjudicate is going to be insufficient. I mean, you are correct, you and a lot of other people are too lenient on these guys. This is exactly how people get away with bad stuff for way too long - people are too willing to look the other way, and they guys who aren't willing to look away look like a**holes.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

I'm not looking for him to be convicted in a criminal or sports law sense. Not getting a media opportunity is not like being banned from sports and having results stripped. The standard of proof for the latter is fairly high, and it should be so. The standard of proof for the former doesn't have to be as high. Some parties I consider credible have raised enough suspicion that I don't care to see Horner.

I also consider the standard that you're applying to be way too low. The UCI has been trying pretty hard to look the other way for way too long. Hence, relying on positive tests that they adjudicate is going to be insufficient. I mean, you are correct, you and a lot of other people are too lenient on these guys. This is exactly how people get away with bad stuff for way too long - people are too willing to look the other way, and they guys who aren't willing to look away look like a**holes.

Okay. By extension, there are dopers managing teams, there are dopers who own teams, there are dopers who are team sponsors, and there are already dopers in the broadcast booth.

What I don’t get (here) is the energy tossed at Horner - for what? People don’t like his voice? His personality? They don’t like the rumors associated with him?

When the sport burns to the ground, if it gets resurrected by good people with spines, and a moral compass, maybe we’ll find the one guy who can sit next to Phil.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

It's true he wasn't ever officially busted. However, after the 2013 Vuelta where some people expressed surprise at his performance. In response, Horner released a bunch of his biological passport data. In response, Robin Parisotto, who was on the biological passport committee at one point, said that the overall pattern was suspicious.

It's true that the UCI didn't flag Horner's passport for further review by people like Parisotto. However, they didn't flag Armstrong's 2009 passport either. Parisotto and one other expert criticized the UCI for that, saying that if they had been asked to review enough of his passport data, they would have found the sequence to be ... not normal.

Then, of course, he was dropped from the 2014 Vuelta team on account of low cortisol levels. These can indicate use of corticosteroids. Wiggins and others on Team Sky may have used them to drop weight, which is also against the rules.

I am frankly a bit surprised that you did not know this.

He was also the oldest Grand Tour winner ever. Riders that old just don't win Grand Tours.