Cup and cone bearing adjust

[marciero]

I've always adjusted cup and cone bearings to just seated and maybe back off an eighth of a turn, then lock down, such that there is no play, or maybe just the very slightest bit of play. I guess if there is no play there is not telling if it is tighter than you want. In any case, I'm not convinced that installing the wheel in the dropouts tightens things further, in which case we want a little play. Also, might it be desirable to have just a bit of play when installed? Maybe that would facilitate the flow of grease. Also, I would bet that binding begins to occur exactly at the threshold of no-play in the adjustment. So if that is the case we want a tad of play.

Basically I'm talking myself into adjusting for more play here. Curious how others do this, and if practices vary.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by marciero

I've always adjusted cup and cone bearings to just seated and maybe back off an eighth of a turn, then lock down, such that there is no play, or maybe just the very slightest bit of play. I guess if there is no play there is not telling if it is tighter than you want. In any case, I'm not convinced that installing the wheel in the dropouts tightens things further, in which case we want a little play. Also, might it be desirable to have just a bit of play when installed? Maybe that would facilitate the flow of grease. Also, I would bet that binding begins to occur exactly at the threshold of no-play in the adjustment. So if that is the case we want a tad of play.

Basically I'm talking myself into adjusting for more play here. Curious how others do this, and if practices vary.

Depends on the hub design but there is little doubt that clamping a wheel into a frame or fork with a QR that is tight enough so the wheel doesn't come out, DOES increase the 'tightness' of the cones on the bearings. Why you adjust with a wee bit of 'play' off the bike, clamp in, no play..spin the wheel..with hand on seat stay or fork leg and feel nothing but smoothness.

[jamesdak]

I leave a tiny bit of play I can feel with my fingers on the axle while on the bench. It seems to translated into a free spinning wheel on the bike with no play felt when mounted with the QG tightened. If I can detect play in the wheel with it mounted (by grabbing the rim/tire and trying to move that) I always preload more.

[thwart]

Same here.

As a matter of fact right now I have one bike with a very tight front QR… just too lazy to take it off and tighten the bearings ‘the right way’ another millimeter or so. It’s a 7810 Dura Ace hub… the more recent Campy cup & cone hub designs can be adjusted while on the bike… QR tightening has essentially no effect.

[David Kirk]

Here's an interesting thing to try if you feel inclined - adjust the hub as you would normally and then put a pair of dropouts on hub and lock down the skewer. Now spin the axle to see how it feels. All too often it will feel tight and notchy. You can then readjust until it spins smoothly even when the skewer is tight.

Now I know that most people won't have a pair of dropouts just sitting around to do this with but you can put a small stack of washers on the axle instead and it will work the same way.


dave

[marciero]

Thanks for the insights all. Looks like I will probably be backing off a bit on the adjust!

[redir]

How does tightening the skewer on the two stop nuts of the cup and cone system tighten up the bearings?

[David Kirk]

Originally Posted by redir

How does tightening the skewer on the two stop nuts of the cup and cone system tighten up the bearings?

As unlikely as it sounds it compresses the axle end to end and therefore decreases the distance between the cones on the axle...which tightens the bearings.

dave

[dlui]

Stein made a 'tool' to adjust bearings, basically a thick plate. Clamp to the hub with QR to your usual tightness, mount to vise with the 'ears' overlap. Adjust the cone opposite the lever side to your liking.

[Look585]

Note that for solid nutted axles, this QR compression does not exist. Adjust your cup&cone track hubs with as little play as possible.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Depends on the hub design but there is little doubt that clamping a wheel into a frame or fork with a QR that is tight enough so the wheel doesn't come out, DOES increase the 'tightness' of the cones on the bearings. Why you adjust with a wee bit of 'play' off the bike, clamp in, no play..spin the wheel..with hand on seat stay or fork leg and feel nothing but smoothness.

I've been pulling out my older wheels and checking them. Almost all are cup/cone including the Record hub wheelset you built. I was taught the "little bit of play" method long ago and still do it. The only weird wheelset is my old Zondas, which I've had to adjust a more frequently, but only on the bike. When we move to Wyoming next year, I plan on having bikes on rotation and using my silver hub wheel sets often.

[bikinchris]

A perfectly adjusted cone and cup hub will have just a little play when the quick release is nearly open, and the play will disappear when clamped down.
The Stein tool works great, but I have had good results clamping without the springs in the rear dropout of the bike.

[Brian Smith]

The Stein tool, or clamping the hub in the dropout on one side in order to perform the adjustment on the un-obscured side of the axle, is a nice thought, but when clamped in both dropouts the axle compresses further than when it is compressed in only one. The Barnett Bicycle Institute method of adjustment, employing some tape, some indications every 5-10 degrees, and creeping up on the final adjustment until there is _just_ no play is more ideal.

[Veloo]

I saw Calvin Jones use a couple of wrenches to play the role of dropouts to get the right tightness.
https://youtu.be/Uxi7wTRGfZM?si=W43rNfKmGuu9_xo_&t=304

Last year I picked up a busted Giant frame and fork for $40 to do some experimenting on but I will prob sacrifice the forks for the dropouts and turn them into hub adjustment tools.

Originally Posted by David Kirk

Here's an interesting thing to try if you feel inclined - adjust the hub as you would normally and then put a pair of dropouts on hub and lock down the skewer. Now spin the axle to see how it feels. All too often it will feel tight and notchy. You can then readjust until it spins smoothly even when the skewer is tight.

Now I know that most people won't have a pair of dropouts just sitting around to do this with but you can put a small stack of washers on the axle instead and it will work the same way.


dave

[redir]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

As unlikely as it sounds it compresses the axle end to end and therefore decreases the distance between the cones on the axle...which tightens the bearings.

dave

I wonder if it's the threads that compress in a bit b/c I just cannot imagine a short steel pipe could compress over that short a distance? I am not metallurgist though. But on a micro level I can at least envision the 'kerfed' threads bending. or just the minute wiggle room between thread and nut?