OT, yet again: WWII Japanese sword

[Mikej]

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ress-455843471

I would ponder to say you have a Naval officers parade sword, 1883 dress sword, which would not be a combat use item. I am only speculating its a souviner type due to the lack of any wear or markings that would suggest it was in service. Enjoy the memories and the stories of your father.

[oldpotatoe]

Thread drift but what I find fascinating is that, at least for the 19th century, early and mid 20th century thru today..probably even before that, was the similarity of Naval uniforms and accoutrements, like swords, for the various Navies throughout at the world..even for 'enemies'..Below Naval officer swords for the USA, GB, Japan and Germany.
I wonder where mine is?

[verticaldoug]

From the Japanese point of view, the military uniforms were a copy. It was a decision made in the 1870's with the Meiji Restoration and the decision to modernize society, do away with the Samurai and Feudalism.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

From the Japanese point of view, the military uniforms were a copy. It was a decision made in the 1870's with the Meiji Restoration and the decision to modernize society, do away with the Samurai and Feudalism.

Thanks for the info..BUT, all naval officer uniforms of almost all countries are so similar..right down to the double breasted blouses, brass buttons and rank on the sleeve. Glad they are rather than the cookie cutter stuff of the USArmy/USAF...boring....USMC unique also. Great uniforms right down to the scroll on top officer's covers..bonus points to anybody who knows why USMC Officers covers have this..

No fair googling it..

[choke]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Thanks for the info..BUT, all naval officer uniforms of almost all countries are so similar..right down to the double breasted blouses, brass buttons and rank on the sleeve. Glad they are rather than the cookie cutter stuff of the USArmy/USAF...boring....USMC unique also. Great uniforms right down to the scroll on top officer's covers..bonus points to anybody who knows why USMC Officers covers have this..

No fair googling it..

It's called a 'Quatrefoil' (sp?). The story goes that it was so that Marine sharpshooters in the rigging of sailing ships wouldn't shoot their own officers.


But then I kind of cheated since I learned that in Boot Camp many years ago.

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by KJMUNC

Amazing piece of history. Cue the social commentary in 3, 2, 1.....


Kidding aside, my grandfather also brought home all kinds of stuff from his stints in the Pacific including his combat used M1 Garand, but sadly left it to a son with a drinking problem who sold it for $25 to buy a bottle of cheap booze.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by choke

It's called a 'Quatrefoil' (sp?). The story goes that it was so that Marine sharpshooters in the rigging of sailing ships wouldn't shoot their own officers.


But then I kind of cheated since I learned that in Boot Camp many years ago.

I don't think the hats worn by officers in the days of sailing ships with riflemen in the rigging had flat tops that could support such embroidery.

[zmudshark]

I put some pictures in a Google Album:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YpNqDUp6vQiNjTZg8

Mikej seems to be close. It is a dress sword (no sharp edge). The scabbard has two hangings, and no serial number that I can find.

If anyone can tell me more, I'd be grateful. Any idea on value? I'm not selling but would like to know.

IMG_2888 (Large).jpg

[Ken Robb]

I think there were restrictions on the kinds of souvenirs that US troops were allowed to bring home. Surely quite a few hand guns were hidden and smuggled either as complete weapons or as a part in this package, another part in that package, etc. until the entire weapon sat on the family dining room table. As a former Army Ordnance office I know each rifle and pistol had a serial number and records were kept about who had been issued each weapon. The "owner" had better never forget the number of his weapon(s). At the end of various operations/deployments each soldier had to turn in his weapon and get it checked off his record.

Obviously an enemy pistol picked up overseas would not be registered to a GI so he would only have to hide it and smuggle it home. Trying to hide the components of a rifle would be a lot more challenging. :-)

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I don't think the hats worn by officers in the days of sailing ships with riflemen in the rigging had flat tops that could support such embroidery.

Marine Officers had the quatrefoil in the days of on board ship fighting - barbary pirate wars etc. It was so the sharpshooters could recognize all Marines BUT it was a popular design element of the times. The covers then were not the barracks / flat top type, but soft tops. The quatrefoil is now only used on an Officer Barracks Cover (or Warrant Officers).

Semper Fi!!

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Marine Officers had the quatrefoil in the days of on board ship fighting - barbary pirate wars etc. It was so the sharpshooters could recognize all Marines BUT it was a popular design element of the times. The covers then were not the barracks / flat top type, but soft tops. The quatrefoil is now only used on an Officer Barracks Cover (or Warrant Officers).

Semper Fi!!

This makes sense-------and the current use really looks COOL!

[gdw]

Originally Posted by zmudshark

I put some pictures in a Google Album:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YpNqDUp6vQiNjTZg8

Mikej seems to be close. It is a dress sword (no sharp edge). The scabbard has two hangings, and no serial number that I can find.

If anyone can tell me more, I'd be grateful. Any idea on value? I'm not selling but would like to know.

Attachment 1698033526

Those pop up at the auction houses, Ebay, and shops that specialize in military collectibles quite often. The link I posted showed one that sold for $525. You can use the info we provided to search the internet to see if that is a fair price.

This website is a good place to start if you're interested in learning more about your sword or Japanese swords in general.
http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm

[choke]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I don't think the hats worn by officers in the days of sailing ships with riflemen in the rigging had flat tops that could support such embroidery.

https://usmc-mccs.org/articles/histo...uniform-items/

[KJMUNC]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I think there were restrictions on the kinds of souvenirs that US troops were allowed to bring home. Surely quite a few hand guns were hidden and smuggled either as complete weapons or as a part in this package, another part in that package, etc. until the entire weapon sat on the family dining room table. As a former Army Ordnance office I know each rifle and pistol had a serial number and records were kept about who had been issued each weapon. The "owner" had better never forget the number of his weapon(s). At the end of various operations/deployments each soldier had to turn in his weapon and get it checked off his record.

Obviously an enemy pistol picked up overseas would not be registered to a GI so he would only have to hide it and smuggle it home. Trying to hide the components of a rifle would be a lot more challenging. :-)

No doubt the regulations were in place, but I think pre-post WWII was pretty lax and probably depending a lot on your rank. My grandfather was a Chief Machinist before/during/after the war in the Pacific and brought home all kinds of stuff. He had the Captain's deck chair, steering wheel, and telegraph from a German U-boat, some gear he took off salvaged ships in the Marshall Islands/Kwajalein after he witnessed atomic testing in the late 40's, and numerous weapons from Japan when he was part of the initial occupying force in Kanagawa immediately after surrender. All of that before he was 35

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by choke

It's called a 'Quatrefoil' (sp?). The story goes that it was so that Marine sharpshooters in the rigging of sailing ships wouldn't shoot their own officers.


But then I kind of cheated since I learned that in Boot Camp many years ago.

Well done and thanks for your service..
And as a side..of US military swords, the USMC one is the best looking..IMHO..