Champion cyclist Ethan Boyes hit and killed by driver in SF

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by rallizes

Japan seems pretty hardcore about drunk driving and it seems effective?

older article but...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...vers-in-japan/

'In Japan, a country with arguably the harshest drink-driving laws in the world, drivers don’t chance it. They just don’t drink and drive. After a spate of alcohol-related fatal traffic accidents around the turn of the century, Japanese authorities decided to enact tougher laws to solve this societal problem. Imposed in 2002, the new stricter drink-driving laws saw alcohol-fueled fatalities drop by over half instantly, and by up to 80 percent over the next few years.'

This is interesting, thanks for posting it.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by rallizes

Japan seems pretty hardcore about drunk driving and it seems effective?

older article but...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...vers-in-japan/

'In Japan, a country with arguably the harshest drink-driving laws in the world, drivers don’t chance it. They just don’t drink and drive. After a spate of alcohol-related fatal traffic accidents around the turn of the century, Japanese authorities decided to enact tougher laws to solve this societal problem. Imposed in 2002, the new stricter drink-driving laws saw alcohol-fueled fatalities drop by over half instantly, and by up to 80 percent over the next few years.'

I would think population density is a huge factor.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by rallizes

Japan seems pretty hardcore about drunk driving and it seems effective?

There are aspects of the Japanese system that would be considered a violation of basic constitutional rights in the U.S. I doubt many people in the U.S. would be willing to trade those rights in order to lower U.S. crime rates to levels seen in Japan.

[rallizes]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

There are aspects of the Japanese system that would be considered a violation of basic constitutional rights in the U.S. I doubt many people in the U.S. would be willing to trade those rights in order to lower U.S. crime rates to levels seen in Japan.

I don't know enough about Japan to comment.

That said, does your comment have something to do with drunk driving?

[krooj]

Honestly, just take a look at how they treat DUIs in Canada - it's a felony. While I don't agree with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric in this thread, I do think that confirmed DUIs should be upgraded to felony status, which serious long-term impact on the convict's life post-release: can't vote, can't own a gun, significantly harder to find a job, can't travel, etc... Make it a minimum 10 year sentence + felony and people might think twice. Then again, given the amount of buzzed or drunk driving I've seen in the US, maybe not.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

I would think population density is a huge factor.

It's actually the opposite. This is most effective in the rural and suburban areas. Where we have our mountain house, people often call the skipper driver to drive them home. They don't have the public transportation options.

In the densely populated urban centers, public transportation is too robust to bother with a car.

[Likes2ridefar]

I was surprised to read Russia has the strictest laws. The same site said in Malaysia if your spouse is charged you could go to jail too even if not with them or aware.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

There are aspects of the Japanese system that would be considered a violation of basic constitutional rights in the U.S. I doubt many people in the U.S. would be willing to trade those rights in order to lower U.S. crime rates to levels seen in Japan.

I don't think your constitutional rights argument holds water.

You were stopped by the police, administered a breathalyzer and failed. The law says X. Even in Japan, you can challenge the stop, challenge the breathanalyser wasn't administered properly etc. You lose your license.

You have due process.

The social shame aspect for you and your family is what is most effective here. But if you have no shame, it won't work. Since many Americans have no shame, it won't work in America.

In Japan, I have a drinking problem is not an excuse. I actually think in Japan they have a lot of 'Salarymen' with drinking problems, they just know they don't drink and drive.

Even in a regular fender bender in Japan, the social etiquette is quite unbelievable.... starting with saying you are sorry. I don't think you do that in the states. I was taught as a young man in Minnesota to never say you are sorry, it is tantamount to admitting guilt. And here in lies the crux of the problem. If you are guilty, admit it. Own up to it. This is the Japanese way. In America, even if you are guilty, you try to beat it. And if you beat it , you are smart. This is the heart of the problem. Makes everyone an asshole.

[EB]

The key here is torts, not criminal law. Do what the Dutch do - shift to a strict liability approach and let the incentives do the work.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by rallizes

That said, does your comment have something to do with drunk driving?

Yes.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

I don't think your constitutional rights argument holds water.

[In Japan] ... You have due process.

Due process in Japan allows some practices that would violate constitutional rights in the U.S. If you wanted to implement those practices in the U.S., you would have to amend the constitution. I doubt people in the U.S. would be willing to amend the constitution and give up those rights to reduce the crime rate. You can argue otherwise, but I think it's pretty clear Americans will fight tooth and nail to retain the rights they have.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

It's actually the opposite. This is most effective in the rural and suburban areas. Where we have our mountain house, people often call the skipper driver to drive them home. They don't have the public transportation options.

In the densely populated urban centers, public transportation is too robust to bother with a car.

My point is that it stands to reason that instances of DWI would be higher in suburban and rural areas than in densely populated urban areas where many people do not have cars. My assumption is that a larger proportion of the total population of Japanese citizens live in densely populated areas than do US citizens.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Due process in Japan allows some practices that would violate constitutional rights in the U.S. If you wanted to implement those practices in the U.S., you would have to amend the constitution. I doubt people in the U.S. would be willing to amend the constitution and give up those rights to reduce the crime rate. You can argue otherwise, but I think it's pretty clear Americans will fight tooth and nail to retain the rights they have.

None of which need happen to crack down on DUI through making it a more serious crime (felony, harsher penalties, whatever).

[rallizes]

Originally Posted by Alistair

None of which need happen to crack down on DUI through making it a more serious crime (felony, harsher penalties, whatever).

Odd this needs to be spelled out for some

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by krooj

Honestly, just take a look at how they treat DUIs in Canada - it's a felony. While I don't agree with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric in this thread, I do think that confirmed DUIs should be upgraded to felony status, which serious long-term impact on the convict's life post-release: can't vote, can't own a gun, significantly harder to find a job, can't travel, etc... Make it a minimum 10 year sentence + felony and people might think twice. Then again, given the amount of buzzed or drunk driving I've seen in the US, maybe not.

We do not have felony offences in Canada, summary or indictable offenses. Currently writing a victim impact statement for an indictable offense, I was a casualty of.