Rivendell saved for now...

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I swapped drop bars for moustache on my Riv Allrounder and I preferred them. I had Suntour Power Ratchet barends with both bars. Along with the bars I also traded a Nitto Technomic DeLuxe 11cm for a Dirt Drop stem to keep the reach to the curved section of the bars within reach as that is the "get long and low" position relative to the sit up and cruise position when gripping straighter ends of the bars like when riding a motorcycle. I'm thinking about swapping the Noodle bars on my Rambouillet for Moustache/Dirt Drop combo to see how I like that.

Yep yep, I have a DirtDrop arriving today to get those bars up where I can actually reach them..the stock Ritchey Force stem is comically short for a Grant-design bike. I still won't love the shape - my palms hit the bar in exactly the wrong spot for some reason - but it'll be tolerable for short town blasts.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

This is basically my argument (which is kinda pointless to argue cuz the bikes are selling, but I digress..): I don't see how Riv benefits from doing less Rivvy bikes. If I want a Speedvagen or Surly I'll just go to those companies.

Joe, bikes are selling, but that could mean different things. GP was very general when he said bikes are selling the same as they have been for years, but revenue has also been flat for years. I think that the broader point here is wether or not he is selling enough to keep the lights on or if he could/should make some changes that would sell more bikes. Selling more bikes would be good, would it not? You are hanging a lot of assumptions on a very vague statement in his blog. I do not think he was trying to be disingenuous but he did not give any numbers to go with his statement to allow it to be seen in a more direct light. It seems that he can make bikes like some of those that he used to make that people still want without compromising any sort of ideology that he holds dearly. Still offering rivy bikes, but with a broader selection to incorporate some bikes that will keep people on the payroll. It is sad to watch this all go down. He is so obviously blind to what needs to happen to revive things and that can be willful due to some strong denial or by sheer ignorance. Time for a serious gut check at RBW. There is no grace in allowing such a slow and painful death when it may still be preventable. I see him digging in and defining RBW too much by what it is not and not enough by what it is.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

Since we are convinced the bikes aren't the problem, can we talk about why the parts aren't selling?

I'd drive myself and everyone else crazy repeating all my comments so I won't do that.

Short version: The market for this stuff is saturated. When Riv started there was no "online" and nobody was selling Brooks saddles, Nitto bars/racks and canvas/leather saddlebags in this country. Now that stuff is everywhere, plus Chinese knockoffs. Wallbike used to be one of the few, too, and they gave up a few years ago.

Yes there's a much longer answer, but I'm not interested in another round of "drive everyone crazy." I'm nuts enough watching this rain and not being able to ride!

[jtbadge]

Okay, so their unique spot in the market is gone, and now they're selling the same stuff as everyone else but at higher prices. What can they do to make their offerings more appealing to customers?

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

Okay, so their unique spot in the market is gone, and now they're selling the same stuff as everyone else but at higher prices. What can they do to make their offerings more appealing to customers?

I wish I knew, brother. I'm much better at liking Riv and defending the kind of stuff they sell than I am at figuring out how they're going to survive Amazon Ebike World. Times, changing and whatnot.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

Okay, so their unique spot in the market is gone, and now they're selling the same stuff as everyone else but at higher prices. What can they do to make their offerings more appealing to customers?

Imo their problem is that they’ve alienated the kind of people that are buying new / expensive bikes - that is - “serious” cyclists, people that wear bibs and use clipless pedals, etc...

If they made a normal road bike that came with full fenders and fit 28-30c 700c tires and had disc brakes as well as nice lugs I bet they’d sell plenty of them but instead they’ve decided to recreate a premium version of the 1984 specialized stumpjumper as well as the Electra townie.

[colker]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

I'd drive myself and everyone else crazy repeating all my comments so I won't do that.

Short version: The market for this stuff is saturated. When Riv started there was no "online" and nobody was selling Brooks saddles, Nitto bars/racks and canvas/leather saddlebags in this country. Now that stuff is everywhere, plus Chinese knockoffs. Wallbike used to be one of the few, too, and they gave up a few years ago.

Yes there's a much longer answer, but I'm not interested in another round of "drive everyone crazy." I'm nuts enough watching this rain and not being able to ride!

Yes. Otoh... we would not be looking for this stuff if Grant didn´t sell it in the first place.
He is a great bike curator; maybe the greatest ever. To make it short as you did: everybody else is riding on his tail to put it bluntly.
The internet is full of sellers, commentators, hype machines.. Thousands of websites and instagram accounts showing vintage this and that but very very few people know *** is going on. There is one or twon guys out there who can say "this is the real deal" and "this is not the real deal". Grant may be all kinds of wrong but he creates a scene.
IMO.. Rivendell should be bought or sponsored by a big, tough bike company and given free reign to whatever tf he wanted because in the end everybody wins.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Imo their problem is that they’ve alienated the kind of people that are buying new / expensive bikes - that is - “serious” cyclists, people that wear bibs and use clipless pedals, etc...

If they made a normal road bike that came with full fenders and fit 28-30c 700c tires and had disc brakes as well as nice lugs I bet they’d sell plenty of them but instead they’ve decided to recreate a premium version of the 1984 specialized stumpjumper as well as the Electra townie.

I think they did that with the Roadeo and possibly the Rambo, without the disc brakes. But then they canceled those two models and made their current offerings.

Further, one of the most sought after Rivs, outside of a custom, is the Legolas cross bike. But that model always seemed to be limited production and not available. Moreover, it didn’t help that they had to stop using the Legolas name. But they could have renamed it and offer basically the same frameset.

One thing Riv has done right is they still offer the Atlantis, which I understand is their best selling frameset, and I believe they now have a Taiwan made version that cost less to built.

I know, Good Luck!

[bward1028]

I’m no fan of Rivendell, but I’ve gotta day, I don’t understand how they can be failing when Peter White (with his archaic business practices) is still in business. I guess he doesn’t really have employees though

[colker]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Imo their problem is that they’ve alienated the kind of people that are buying new / expensive bikes - that is - “serious” cyclists, people that wear bibs and use clipless pedals, etc...

If they made a normal road bike that came with full fenders and fit 28-30c 700c tires and had disc brakes as well as nice lugs I bet they’d sell plenty of them but instead they’ve decided to recreate a premium version of the 1984 specialized stumpjumper as well as the Electra townie.

You can buy that everywhere. Rivendell sells something different.
Wasn´t for Rivendell you wouldn´t even know lugs, fenders and 28-30 700c tires. Their role is to do it different, to bring back tradition.

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by bward1028

I’m no fan of Rivendell, but I’ve gotta day, I don’t understand how they can be failing when Peter White (with his archaic business practices) is still in business. I guess he doesn’t really have employees though

peter white sells stuff people want.
rivendell doesnt

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by bward1028

I’m no fan of Rivendell, but I’ve gotta day, I don’t understand how they can be failing when Peter White (with his archaic business practices) is still in business. I guess he doesn’t really have employees though

He's not having his own bike line produced, either, nor marketing his own cranks, shifters, bags and clothing. It's a bike shop.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by colker

You can buy that everywhere. Rivendell sells something different.
Wasn´t for Rivendell you wouldn´t even know lugs, fenders and 28-30 700c tires. Their role is to do it different, to bring back tradition.

I think you’re giving them WAY too much credit. Bikes like that have been around for decades before Rivendell.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

I think you’re giving them WAY too much credit. Bikes like that have been around for decades before Rivendell.

Well, you have to look at actual timelines, not just "been around for decades." At the time Riv started in '94 that bicycle was quickly becoming a thing of the past, and looked to be left there. Grant/Riv deserves massive credit for grabbing that iron and insisting it should stick around. There's 3 or 4 "categories" that have sprung up since then that trace directly back to what he was doing in the late -90s/early-00s when no one else cared.

[colker]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

I think you’re giving them WAY too much credit. Bikes like that have been around for decades before Rivendell.

Sure... but Riv insisted on leather saddles, fatter tires, lugs and steel when no one cared anymore. Not to mention Nitto hbars.