Truck driver kills 2 and injures 11 in Arizona

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Civilization would not be possible if we were not willing, as a society, to give up some freedoms in deference to other people's well being.

Which is why it's a work in progress, at best.

[katematt]

I live in NJ but have family in Litchfield Park, AZ that borders Goodyear. We visit every year and one year I reached out to the West Valley Club to see if anyone had a bike I could use. One of the members hooked me up with his back up Masi at no charge to use for a week.

Needless to say this is a great enthusiastic group of folks who love to ride. I ache for the families of the deceased and the group at large who are going through this horrible tragedy.

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

In this case, installing breathalyzers in all cars is going a bit to far, but I still refer you back to the earlier post about driving being a privilege, not a right.

Post to me? I did not read it and it had no bearing on what I wrote WRT mandatory breathalyzers to all in order not to profile, what the hell ever that means.

So, I refer to your response to my post since you responded to me.

Giving up freedom for the illusion of safety, not actual safety, is what my post meant. Seat belts and air bags and ABS brakes are great. I could list many, many ways where we have gone astray along the lines of mandatory breathalyzers. My objection is clearly stated. I am fine that 90% of PL thinks otherwise.

[tomato coupe]

To summarize:

I don't need to hear any more facts [about] the current "Karen" culture [or the] 'woke' 'bolshevik's wetdream' [of] Swift capital punishment.

[AngryScientist]

Mandatory breathalyzers in all cars is very very unlikely to be a thing.

The tech is in it's infancy, but I know of a few companies that are adopting some driver monitoring features in their fleet of trucks in high consequence industries (think propane trucks, tankers, etc) that actually do a pretty slick job of monitoring driver behavior and other parameters and can spot distracted driving and other behavior that is indicative of inattentive or otherwise impaired (like being sleepy and unable to keep eyes open, etc). I think some of these features are making their way into higher end cars too, and can vibrate the seat to wake you up, etc.

So while specific alcohol monitoring is unlikely, I think we will see more driver behavior monitoring installed in cars, which could perhaps pick up an impaired driver, be it drugs or alcohol.

It wasnt too long ago that you could buy a car without TPMS or a Backup camera, but I believe those are both mandatory now...

[unterhausen]

my experience with alcohol sensors is that it's pretty easy to make them stop working. I guess they can be cheap though.

[zmudshark]

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/02/27/...ists-goodyear/

[AngryScientist]

...

He also indicated to police that he had smoked a marijuana blunt 11 hours before the wreck happened, but investigators were still working to obtain the blood analysis results. Lujana also denied any physical or mental conditions that could have impacted his driving ability.

[callmeishmael]

I often feel that 3 basic changes would go a long way to helping all road users.

The first is a law of presumed responsibility. That is, if a less vulnerable road user hits a more vulnerable one, then the law will presume they are at fault unless they can reasonably demonstrate otherwise.

Second, that you happen to be driving a car at the time you injure another person should not affect the legal outcome, in the sense it should not be a mitigating factor; if anything, it might be considered an aggravating one. I would suggest that if you kill someone by your driving, then without significant mitigating circumstances, you should expect to go to jail. It is shocking that (in the UK) the sentencing starting point for causing death by careless driving is community service

If those things came to fruition, and they were drummed in to every driver, then people just might drive with the due care, attention and courtesy that should be universal in the first place.

The final change is a sustained public awareness campaign. In the UK, there was a serious problem with drink-driving until the 1990s. Stiffer sentences had some effect, but what really made a difference was relentless Government advertising which sought to stigmatise those who drink-drove. You know what? It was very effective. People changed their behaviour because they didn't want to do something socially unacceptable. Clearly, the problem hasn't been eradicated, but it's much less of an issue now.

We need something similar about aggressive and distracted driving. We also need to make it very clear that driving is a privilege and not a right, and that privilege can and will be revoked if you abuse it, regardless of the inconvenience it may cause you or your family.

[p nut]

If marijuana were a factor, I highly doubt it was 11 hours prior to the event. Probably more like right before he got in the truck an hour before. How does he not see a big group of cyclists and only start braking once he hears sounds of metal being smashed. Not the bikes, but his own truck from ramming into the concrete barrier after he’d run over the cyclists.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by zmudshark

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/02/27/...ists-goodyear/

I'll be riding down in the PHX area next weekend. As I posted previously, I've noticed more people drifting in and out of the bike lane in the past few years. Maybe because I'm not there all the time is why I notice, but I could see how someone could become numb to it after a while. It would be nice if law enforcement would have an active campaign to address the issue followed up by some steep fines for "drifting over."

[AZR3]

I ride that stretch, in the opposite direction the group was on, all the time. Where they were hit is probably the safest part of that road since it has a good sized shoulder.

The bridge does arc a bit and I had though that perhaps the driver came over the crest and didn't see the group but I saw the impact area today and his visibility wouldn't have been impacted by the arc.

I wasn't 100% sure where the impact happened but on my ride today I could see a very long black tire rub mark on the concrete barrier that separates the road from the sidewalk. I wasn't sure if that was from the accident or had been there before but when I got home I saw an article on azfamily.com that mentioned the truck had hit the barrier. From the mark it left he hit that barrier HARD!

I've ridden with the woman that was killed an another male that is recovering from a broken collar bone an a few ribs. There is a GoFundMe if anyone would like to help

[verticaldoug]

On a side note, what ever happened to the sentencing of the 16 year old driving his dad's truck that tried to roll coal on a group of cyclists and ended up running over 6 in Waller Texas? I looked and after being charged in 2021, it just sort of disappeared.

[zmudshark]

Originally Posted by bigbill

I'll be riding down in the PHX area next weekend. As I posted previously, I've noticed more people drifting in and out of the bike lane in the past few years. Maybe because I'm not there all the time is why I notice, but I could see how someone could become numb to it after a while. It would be nice if law enforcement would have an active campaign to address the issue followed up by some steep fines for "drifting over."

I hope you get good weather, Bill. I wish I could ride.

Anecdotal, but back when I rode daily, one of the worse offenders of driving in the bike lane were PHX cops.

[Turkle]

Every time I read a story like this, I wonder to myself, "how much is enough?"

And of course, even cyclists have so internalized car culture that the drastic changes we need to protect not only ourselves as cyclists, but all road users, from pedestrians to motorists, seem all but impossible. It's beyond horrifying, it's truly despair-inducing at this point.

This is not a "tragedy," it is avoidable but permitted carnage, and it cannot be allowed to continue.