Fastest & Grippiest Tires?

[Dlevy05]

We have had many tire threads, though some great ones with good feedback/info lack parameters for use.

I understand it's a bit of a dichotomy/oxymoron/whatever... but:

Can you have tires that are extremely grippy and have low rolling resistance?

Does one always come at the expense of the other?

Assuming one doesn't care about wear/lifetime of the tire, what would you all suggest for the fastest, grippiest tire?

For context I'm gonna run 700 x 28's... but answers don't have to be limited to that size.

[DeBike]

I have neither a factual answer, nor an opinion, on the OP's query. I do have some thoughts.
You will likely never get a definitive answer for that question. You will get a lot of opinion, some might even be backed up by some kind of data. My set ups have evolved into being more about comfort than anything else. A bit of extra weight, or a bit more rolling resistance is not going to make any difference to most riders. When it comes to tires, for me, puncture resistance and durability of the tires, are more important. And, I will not sacrifice comfort for either of those.
Cost is a factor, but not usually a make or break the deal, factor. I have tires that I bought on sale for $15 that have been almost as good as $45 tires from the same manufacturer. The are a bit heavier, have a bit more rolling resistance, but have been puncture free and ride nice. I do notice the tread is wearing faster than on the upper level tires, which have not been flat free.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Dlevy05

We have had many tire threads, though some great ones with good feedback/info lack parameters for use.

I understand it's a bit of a dichotomy/oxymoron/whatever... but:

Can you have tires that are extremely grippy and have low rolling resistance?

Does one always come at the expense of the other?

Assuming one doesn't care about wear/lifetime of the tire, what would you all suggest for the fastest, grippiest tire?

For context I'm gonna run 700 x 28's... but answers don't have to be limited to that size.

A short answer - yes, you can have a grippy tire with low rolling resistance (with caveats). Both grip and rolling resistance are influenced by the thicknesses of the tread and casing. A thin tread and casing conforms to a pavement surface better, yielding better traction. And thin tread and casing has less hysteresis loss when it flexes (the majority of tire rolling resistance is due to hysteresis losses when it flexes). The caveat being that a tire with thin casing and tread is also more delicate.

As far as which tires are fast and grippy - the fast part is easy find out now that groups like BicycleRollingResistance are doing rolling resistance testing. The grippy part is a little trickier - tire traction is difficult to measure, so most of the evidence is anecdotal. However, when Tour Magazine used to do tire traction testing, Continental tires with their Black Chili compound were typically the top performers. However, I don't know how well the the latest Continental Black Chili tires perform.

[yinzerniner]

Easy answer - look at the tires the pros use on TT bikes. Dry or wet grip doesn’t necessarily mean higher rolling resistance, as stated in the post above. But for all out speed and control TT specific tires are probably the best with little consideration for tread life or puncture resistance.

[Dlevy05]

Is there a better metric than thread count in assessing this?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

Easy answer - look at the tires the pros use on TT bikes. Dry or wet grip doesn’t necessarily mean higher rolling resistance, as stated in the post above. But for all out speed and control TT specific tires are probably the best with little consideration for tread life or puncture resistance.

Getting back to the grip part of the equation - most high performance tires don't have much problem with dry grip, it's when the roads are wet that grip becomes an important factor. Do the Pros use the same TT tires in both dry and wet conditions? (And if they do switch tires in wet conditions, is that more a matter of grip, or of puncture protection, given that punctures are more common in wet conditions?)

[dddd]

I'm impressed that such a thread here does not quickly devolve into individual tire brand preferences, the way that things like motor oil discussions on other sites often do.

We're a different crowd apparently!

I'm kind of partial to Continental these days, though I recall feeling "saved" by my fresh Corsa G2.0 tires last year when I had to totally over-apply my R6800 brakes following a pair of riders into a fast, steeply-descending right-hand corner down into the American river canyon on Iowa Hill Road.
The combination of my Mavic carbon rim surfaces and the aforementioned tires on my CX-Zero had me surprisingly recovering all too smoothly from a rear wheel drift after those two familiar riders went heavy on their brakes.

EDITING; That was last winter, but I recall the road surfaces being dry.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Getting back to the grip part of the equation - most high performance tires don't have much problem with dry grip, it's when the roads are wet that grip becomes an important factor. Do the Pros use the same TT tires in both dry and wet conditions? (And if they do switch tires in wet conditions, is that more a matter of grip, or of puncture protection, given that punctures are more common in wet conditions?)

Apparently at least some pros change TT tires based on road conditions: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wro...ta-ao-algarve/. According to Bissegger, incorrect tire choice made him uncompetitive.

Greg

[Dlevy05]

Originally Posted by dddd

I'm impressed that such a thread here does not quickly devolve into individual tire brand preferences, the way that things like motor oil discussions on other sites often do.

We're a different crowd apparently!

I'm kind of partial to Continental these days, though I recall feeling "saved" by my fresh Corsa G2.0 tires last year when I had to totally over-apply my R6800 brakes following a pair of riders into a fast, steeply-descending right-hand corner down into the American river canyon on Iowa Hill Road.
The combination of my Mavic carbon rim surfaces and the aforementioned tires on my CX-Zero had me surprisingly recovering all too smoothly from a rear wheel drift after those two familiar riders went heavy on their brakes.

EDITING; That was last winter, but I recall the road surfaces being dry.

We're alright . The situation you're describing is where most will go badly. A soft compound is simply essential in dealing with loose surfaces, and tread pattern does matter in the wet. The fact that that happened in the winter is significant, as temp must affect all tires somehow. On a 'cool' day, softer compounds should certainly shine.

[Dlevy05]

Originally Posted by GregL

Apparently at least some pros change TT tires based on road conditions: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wro...ta-ao-algarve/. According to Bissegger, incorrect tire choice made him uncompetitive.

Greg

This is interesting. I guess the pros don't always get it right either.
I wonder how much of that is due to compound rather than tread pattern?

[9tubes]

Originally Posted by GregL

Apparently at least some pros change TT tires based on road conditions: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wro...ta-ao-algarve/. According to Bissegger, incorrect tire choice made him uncompetitive.

Greg

I read this quickly but do I understand that he finished 90 seconds down in a 24km time trial and he's blaming it on the tires? Did he take off some tires from a $300 WalMart bike?


.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Dlevy05

This is interesting. I guess the pros don't always get it right either.
I wonder how much of that is due to compound rather than tread pattern?

I'd like to see some actual evidence of tread pattern improving traction (wet or dry). There's been plenty of anecdotes and theorizing, but I've seen no hard, repeatable evidence.

[Dlevy05]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'd like to see some actual evidence of tread pattern improving traction (wet or dry). There's been plenty of anecdotes and theorizing, but I've seen no hard, repeatable evidence.

This seems to be an interesting resource but haven't had time to look through it thoroughly, yet...

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'd like to see some actual evidence of tread pattern improving traction (wet or dry). There's been plenty of anecdotes and theorizing, but I've seen no hard, repeatable evidence.

There's no evidence of tread improving traction because it doesn't improve traction, it just results in less grip across all conditions.

Due to the pressure we run and speed we ride at, bike tyres do not aquaplane and because of this tread is not required.

(More here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html and here https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html, Jan Heine, of course, disagrees)

The fact some tyres are said to have fantastic dry weather grip but poor wet weather grip is curious to me, I can't wrap my head around it. The reason I say that is what's responsible for a fantastic dry weather tyre (soft/supple, thin casing) is the same as what's responsible for a fantastic wet weather tyre. Perhaps it is that some tyres deform less at lower pressures you would use in wet weather, I don't know.

[PJN]

Originally Posted by Dlevy05

This seems to be an interesting resource but haven't had time to look through it thoroughly, yet...

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

Was going to post a link to this.

Lots of good info and relative ratings. I love me some spider charts too.