Weigle, Wojcik, IF, Serotta, Fat City: End of an Era?

[nickl]

Originally Posted by rallizes

not sure what the issue is

he goes on to say they are bikes his friends' dads lusted over

it's his experience

anyway, realistically are young people interested in RS bikes these days?

surely no

The only thing that may discourage a young person, who is cycling literate, from purchasing a Sachs would be the price.

Yesterday, I visited the local bike co-op, a local hangout for 'hardcore' bike junkies. Most of these individuals are ultra fit and ride mega miles with age ranges mostly in the twenties to early thirties but also included a few older guys including one or two boomers. While checking out their bikes virtually all were high mileage, but meticulously maintained, steel framed with classic 'dad bike' geometry. No carbon, electronic shifting or disc brakes among their rides. One of the younger guys even said he preferred the simplicity and reliability of friction shifters over index on his bar ends.

[samkl]

I think I’m on the younger end around here (35) and I love classic steel bikes. I just ordered a custom lugged frame (which is probably the most expensive thing I’ve ever bought). With sites like The Radavist and bikefluencers like Ron/Ultraromance/whatever he’s called, as well as brands like Crust, you can see a lot of appreciation for classic steel bikes and classic parts. Even Rivendell seems to appeal to a mix of old guys and hipsters who appreciate the history and iconoclastic bikes.

Point is, there are lots of bike subcultures. And that’s one reason bikes are so great!

[bicipunk]

Originally Posted by nickl

The only thing that may discourage a young person, who is cycling literate, from purchasing a Sachs would be the price.

I'm definitely on the young end of the spectrum here (28) and would concour with this. I don't think that I'm any more literate by desiring some of these more experienced builders to build a bike for myself, but I do think that many people, both young and old, don't appreciate the craft, innovation and knowledge that comes from someone practicing building for decades. It's more a statement of the view of craft in world than age imo.

The only thing that's holding me back from ordering a Kirk MRB is the price. I hope I can get to a place financially to have him make me one before he retires....

[haho1976]

“someone practicing building for decades.”

Perfect practice make Perfection

[lavistaa]

Originally Posted by Alexi

IF employees had some ideological issues with Gary who bought them and moved them out of Somerville. Gary is gone and they are back in Mass, Shawn and Keith are the only folks I know of who remain. Changes are coming, and I know that they are currently too busy to have visitors so that’s a good thing.

In New England we still have FTW, Firefly, Chapman, Royal H, Commonwealth, 44, Pioneer Valley, Alex Meade, Parlee, Pratt Frame Works. And I’m sure more that we are forgetting.

Saila Cycles and Tomii both got their frame building start in NE, but relocated to Texas.

Just wanted to add that Habanero has moved from WAY west of the Mississippi back to it's eastern routes and is setup in Salem MA. We're looking to open a co-op so as to have a retail presence as well however that may take a bit as anyone in this area knows, good space is hard to come by. If anyone is in the North Shore and has ideas, we're all ears!

As a manufacturer, we've found a good, or maybe even amazing set of partners here including the newest member of the Habanero team who all have absolutely stellar qualifications and personalities. There is a bit less of a cooperative spirit among manufacturers and suppliers here, as noted by Wendy, the other half of Habanero, based on her experience being from Portland OR. We (Habanero) are 100% down to work with anyone, cooperate and graduate we believe.

[Hilltopwalters]

I was just checking out Hab frames. Good bang for buck!

[eBAUMANN]

Interesting discussion, and a lot of good points.

One consumer dynamic worth considering: the desire to know where your thing (not just bikes) was made and (if we are so lucky) WHO, specifically, made it.

Today its notable when ANYTHING isnt produced in the Far-East.
I find myself searching these products out and HAPPILY paying more for them.
Im lucky to be in VT where there happen to be a lot of great companies and craftspeople (including FTW 5mi away) producing all sorts of high-quality useful stuff.
I feel like this might be the case for a lot of us...you just may have to look a little harder for it.

[Coffee Rider]

Originally Posted by eBAUMANN

Interesting discussion, and a lot of good points.

One consumer dynamic worth considering: the desire to know where your thing (not just bikes) was made and (if we are so lucky) WHO, specifically, made it.

Today its notable when ANYTHING isnt produced in the Far-East.
I find myself searching these products out and HAPPILY paying more for them.
Im lucky to be in VT where there happen to be a lot of great companies and craftspeople (including FTW 5mi away) producing all sorts of high-quality useful stuff.
I feel like this might be the case for a lot of us...you just may have to look a little harder for it.

I think the consumer dynamic you mention is extremely small, but I think I've become one of "those people" who takes a great amount of pleasure in having something that was made specifically for me and knowing who made it.

[sailorboy]

Originally Posted by bicipunk

I'm definitely on the young end of the spectrum here (28) and would concour with this. I don't think that I'm any more literate by desiring some of these more experienced builders to build a bike for myself, but I do think that many people, both young and old, don't appreciate the craft, innovation and knowledge that comes from someone practicing building for decades. It's more a statement of the view of craft in world than age imo.

The only thing that's holding me back from ordering a Kirk MRB is the price. I hope I can get to a place financially to have him make me one before he retires....

There's the whole craft/artisan thing, and also (and I think Richard and others have talked about this over the years as well) the fact that yea, maybe you can find some one-man-show builder to build you a bespoke frameset that might approach even half the price of a Sachs or Kirk or (enter other name here) label, but that likely isn't a sustainable business model for a single builder. I'd wager most of the folks who can deliver you a custom steel brazed bike on the cheap are either working in their parent's basement, living off their spouse/significant others' income or they won't be around long.

I for one, appreciate this difference, (in addition to the years of experience that were likely only made possible through their pricing) and am willing to pay for that.

[lorenbike]

Yeah...I'm on the lower age spectrum here (31), so the main factor is still cost. If I had the cash I'd easily go for any of these U.S. frame builders all day over a comparable-priced 'modern' carbon wonder bike.

I entered the job market right after the recession, and I still think many other folks of my age cohort don't really have much disposable cash. For that reason I suspect, of the people I ride with, I can count few people with the latest batch of 'modern' road bikes. In fact, most are on slightly older steel, aluminum, 10+yr old carbon, tubes in tires, and, gasp, rim brakes. I know maybe 1-2 people in my group who just got road bikes with discs. I don't think it's a hipster retro grouch effect either -- they're bikes, not golf clubs, buy a decent steel frame once, and you may actually have it awhile.