Weigle, Wojcik, IF, Serotta, Fat City: End of an Era?

[carlucci1106]

I can't help but notice that the number of bespoke framebuilders in the New England and upstate NY area have either slowed down, shuttered, or have otherwise had a limited amount of exposure in recent years.

Obviously, we have builders like No.22, RS, and Seven. But it seems like some of the "old guard" has fallen below the horizon a bit.

I posed a question to a local bike shop owner who owns a number of custom bikes, as well as specializes in custom-built bicycles/wheels:

What is going on with IF? (as I admire his hanging from the rafters of his small shop).

His answer was not what I expected. "[Indy Fab] just hasn't changed with the times."

And then I remember when Rusty Lion was in here trying to prop up Serotta. Seemed like all they were trying to do was change with the times.

But people have shifted attention away from this geographical area and focused more on west of the Mississippi.

Do we see a resurgence in the NE/NY scene; does IF get back on its feet? Is there anything to this other than people get older, torches get passed (pun intended)?

[steveandbarb1]

Don't know if this list is updated but just saw this site:

https://theframebuilders.com/list/

Boston and outside, Firefly, Seven, Parlee, Royal H, Chapman cycles (RI)

But think you are right.

My guess is a new dawn will appear and 3d printing will be a major reason why

[Adam]

Serotta is building again in upstate NY.

[Alexi]

Originally Posted by carlucci1106

What is going on with IF? (as I admire his hanging from the rafters of his small shop).

His answer was not what I expected. "[Indy Fab] just hasn't changed with the times."

IF employees had some ideological issues with Gary who bought them and moved them out of Somerville. Gary is gone and they are back in Mass, Shawn and Keith are the only folks I know of who remain. Changes are coming, and I know that they are currently too busy to have visitors so that’s a good thing.

In New England we still have FTW, Firefly, Chapman, Royal H, Commonwealth, 44, Pioneer Valley, Alex Meade, Parlee, Pratt Frame Works. And I’m sure more that we are forgetting.

Saila Cycles and Tomii both got their frame building start in NE, but relocated to Texas.

[cmg]

What does "changed with the times" mean? IF we're building gravel bikes, disk brakes, electronic shifting. What weren't doing being on social media?

[Ken Robb]

I wonder when a custom bike builder analyzes his customer base if he finds a significant percentage are close enough to his shop that shipping the finished products isn't required. And/or can customers come in for a fitting. If most of his customers are not local he might find moving to a new location a good idea. Maybe he could find cheaper real estate, proximity to skiing or other recreation, bigger pool of desirable labor, "nicer" weather, etc.

[harryschwartzma]

Coast cycles
Jamie Swann
Weiss bikes
Vicious cycles
Horse cycles

All NYC or adjacent

[Elefantino]

Rusty Lion ...

[proxient]

Originally Posted by harryschwartzma

Coast cycles
Jamie Swann
Weiss bikes
Vicious cycles
Horse cycles

All NYC or adjacent

Sweettooth & Weis as well

[David Kirk]

As I recall Weigle is still building and Serotta and Chance are still building or at least selling bikes even if they didn't personally build them.

dave

[Gwerziou]

One of my favorite ti builders, Jim Kish, has relocated to Vermont.

[bigbill]

I think there's some pandemic effect here. Materials, components, and workplace challenges hurt businesses working on a slim margin. Until last year, I was a chief engineer in a manufacturing plant that made cabinets. We stayed open during the pandemic because we were defined as a vital industry. It was a semi perfect storm. People with disposable income for kitchen remodels or custom bikes were now working from home and still getting a paycheck. For us, people had the time to take a good look around their home and decided to remodel, you know, since they would be at home anyway. We struggled to meet the orders because of material shortages exacerbated by trucking woes.

Cabinets aren't bikes, but they're similar in that they're at the mercy of supply and demand. Builders that had to sell a certain number of bikes a year to stay afloat were subject to the constraints of material and component availability.

[Blown Reek]

Originally Posted by carlucci1106

His answer was not what I expected. "[Indy Fab] just hasn't changed with the times."

There's really nothing to change since there's really nothing different from what they were doing back in the day versus what's going on today. Unless you're talking about something that is different (like what Argonaut and Pursuit are doing), it's pretty much all the same. Metal tubes welded, metal and carbon mixed, your choice of paint/finishes- that's pretty much it.

Branding and brand perception are the only thing that's changed and all of a sudden whereas I.F. were the cool guys, they just got long in the tooth for nothing more than longevity, and when the core people left it no longer had the same "vibe" that it had before. I mean, what's the point of getting an Ericksen, when it's nothing more than a Bingham with different logos? And now that's gone. Serotta? V2.0 and V3.0 couldn't keep the mystique of the O.G., no matter how much they tried to recapture that market.

Pegoretti is still holding on, but the purists think it's a different beast than when Dario touched them, and it's that nostalgia that's keeping it going. But then again, he always had a workshop so it was a natural transition when he died. How much desire would there be for a Sachs when Richard hangs up his torch? He's a one-man show, and no matter who would fill those Vans, it wouldn't be the same. Heck, any decent framebuilder can buy his framebuilding kit and braze you up the exact same thing (because you're going to use the exact same materials), but it ain't gonna be a Sachs- even if you send off your AR Cycles to Joe Bell. And "Sachs Toys" under the creative guise of someone else? I don't know if there's a Tim Cook to Richard Sachs' Steve Jobs that could pull it off, and if so, someone other than Richard Sachs sending out Twizzlers and writing long-winded musings would be considered trite instead of esoteric.

Everyone buys into the selling of the sizzle and not the steak, and I'm just as guilty of it as the rest of my Paceline brethren. When I got my Spectrum I remember thinking "bury me with it", and it got sold just like any other non-special commodity. Same with my Firefly. "I'm never getting rid of this", I said in regards to my Ti/Carbon "that I was going to keep forever", but it's gone and I'm glad. However, the new owners of those bikes think that they are the best, most mystical, I-can-feel-the-magic-that-the-name-on-the-downtube-is-known-for, superlative-laden bikes, whereas my perception was just the opposite. Basically I got bored with them once the dew was off the rose for whatever reason.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I wonder when a custom bike builder analyzes his customer base if he finds a significant percentage are close enough to his shop that shipping the finished products isn't required. And/or can customers come in for a fitting. If most of his customers are not local he might find moving to a new location a good idea. Maybe he could find cheaper real estate, proximity to skiing or other recreation, bigger pool of desirable labor, "nicer" weather, etc.

If I ever go the full custom route, I'll be leaning heavily toward a builder I can go visit in person.. thankfully, at least for now, I have some great options with Sycip (in my backyard, almost literally), with Rock Lobster and Steve Rex just down the road a bit.. not to mention Retrotec/Inglis in the area as well.. would also be willing to take a trip to Ashland for DeSalvo or Land Shark..

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

There's really nothing to change since there's really nothing different from what they were doing back in the day versus what's going on today. Unless you're talking about something that is different (like what Argonaut and Pursuit are doing), it's pretty much all the same. Metal tubes welded, metal and carbon mixed, your choice of paint/finishes- that's pretty much it.

not quite sure that's 100% accurate.. with the rise in gravel bikes, endurance geos, slacker MTBs, etc, things have changed a bit from 20 yrs ago.. some builders might be the type to say "I'm only building this type of bike".. and a certain subset of riders will certainly appreciate that, while a great many others will want the current designs, but with a custom flair IMHO..

I think that is what might have been meant by "changing with the times".. at least for me..