Mechanic corner: Ekar Cassettes spoke interference

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

So-called "triple butted" spokes have been around for many years. For example, Sapim Force spokes are similar at 2.18/1.8/2.0, and DT Alpine spokes are even more extreme at 2.34/1.8/2.0. They have been primarily marketed toward tandems and loaded touring. As you note, they can be a tight fit through some flange spoke holes (which are often 2.4mm), and which is why many tandem/touring hubs have slightly larger spoke holes (2.5mm - 2.6mm).

I have built many wheels with Sapim Force spokes but the .2mm fatter just at elbow is new to me. The Pillars are really 'quad butted' tho...2.2mm to 2mm to 1.8mm back to 2mm...

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I have built many wheels with Sapim Force spokes but the .2mm fatter just at elbow is new to me. The Pillars are really 'quad butted' tho...2.2mm to 2mm to 1.8mm back to 2mm...

Yeah, that is a bit odd. Pillar calls these spokes "PSR triple butted", where the PSR apparently refers to their process to make them thicker only in the elbows. They also have more traditional triple butted spokes, where the entire neck/elbow is 2.2mm, I'm not sure that the advantage of the PSR spokes is.

They also have other spokes they call quadruple butted which which are even more extreme. These are 2.5mm elbows that squeeze down to a 2.3mm neck, then down further to 1.8mm for the long middle section, then back to 2.0mm at the elbows. I can't imagine there are too many applications for these spokes.

[sleepyfelix]

I've not had this problem with Ekar, but have only been using it on Campy wheels. However I have had a similar problem with Campy 12 sp cassettte (Chorus in this case) sometimes clipping the spokes on some Ritchey Zeta wheels I had. The larger cassette sizes i.e. 30 teeth and above seem to have extra matal tabs on the back which protude inboard. I've heard of some people taking a Dremel to them to remove them as they seem to serve little function and I assume they are part of the manufacturing process.

[alvinholbrook]

hate to resurrect this, but has anyone seen if Campagnolo has actually released a bolt update? I would love to run an Industry Nine hub if possible but would still need a lower-profile set of bolts.

[Peter P.]

Are those bolt heads meant to be serviceable i.e., to disassemble the cassette?

If not and they're technically rivets, how about a few strokes with a file to gain clearance? That way, there would be no issues with the small cog/chain/dropout.

[aaronf]

Originally Posted by alvinholbrook

hate to resurrect this, but has anyone seen if Campagnolo has actually released a bolt update? I would love to run an Industry Nine hub if possible but would still need a lower-profile set of bolts.

Originally Posted by Peter P.

If not and they're technically rivets, how about a few strokes with a file to gain clearance?

If you'd prefer a bit cleaner look than hand filing I'd be happy to help you. No problem to sort on one of my mills or lathes.
And I fully recognize there is no functional difference
pm if interested.

[carlucci1106]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Are those bolt heads meant to be serviceable i.e., to disassemble the cassette?

If not and they're technically rivets, how about a few strokes with a file to gain clearance? That way, there would be no issues with the small cog/chain/dropout.

They are removable; we used a titanium H2O cage bolt set with a low-profile head. That got the clearance we needed, and no issues with 100-kilo-ish, powerful rider with high torque/low cadence style. Used a lot of blue loctite on bolt threads and torqued to at least 12Nm.

Filing down wouldn't have worked on our setup. There was at least 1.5mm of overlap (with CX-rays, even). I envisage that there would not be enough meat left for the Torx tool, if we attempted it. Nothing special about the bolts, except they are about 4mm in length vs 10mm for cage bolts (both rough est), so we had to shear the bolts down and chase their threads through a spare braze on. Worth it, ATMO. https://www.amazon.com/Terske-Ultra-...310&th=1&psc=1