Mechanic corner: Ekar Cassettes spoke interference

carlucci1106 · #1 03-03-2022, 06:17 PM

Hopefully someone with knowledge can provide visual confirmation of an update to the Ekar cassette.

Just spent a lot of the day between Industry Nine and our Ekar online supplier pertaining to the button head bolts attaching to the spider in the back of the cassette. According to I9, the bolt heads interfere with the spokes on a lot of their J-bend Torch-series road hubs when using a conversion FH body, but not on the straight pull versions. According to the rep, they and other wheel manufacturers encountered similar issues and reached out to Campagnolo.

Campagnolo has said the issue of spoke clearance has been resolved, but they did not comment (or at least I have not been told) how this has been achieved. Is the bolt head countersunk in the spider, or is there a modification of the spider geometry to move the bolts/ holes outboard?

Is there any visual indicator that the cassette is indeed the updated design?
FWIW, we have placed an order which contains a cassette that will have been recently supplied to the states. Has anyone gotten an Ekar cassette recently who can confirm the appearance of an updated version?

Thanks for help, preemptively.

oldpotatoe · #2 03-04-2022, 06:42 AM

Paging Velocipede...

AC0 · #3 03-04-2022, 10:56 PM

I purchase my groupset in December but can't say when the cassette was manufactured. The bolts are not countersunk. There is about .5mm gap from an elbow out spoke.

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carlucci1106 · #4 03-04-2022, 11:43 PM

Thanks for your response. Pic helps, too.

Black Dog · #5 03-05-2022, 06:53 AM

Can you put a spacer on the freehub body to move the cassette outboard?

carlucci1106 · #6 03-05-2022, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Can you put a spacer on the freehub body to move the cassette outboard?

I thought about doing that if it comes to it.
I would have to look at my friend's Lynsky dropout to see if the dropout will come into play.

I, of course need several threads to engage on the lockring, also

carlucci1106 · #7 03-05-2022, 03:49 PM

I do not know if this will come out, but Google search found this, which has been taken off website- seems to show a much thinner bolt head, that has a "Green-go" with the Classic flange

I don't want to rattle any Campagnolo cages, because I'm a huge fan, but are these the bolts which are being used now-- and if not, can they be sourced?

Velocipede · #8 03-05-2022, 07:56 PM

I haven't experienced this issue yet. I can check the cassettes I have in the shop on Monday.

carlucci1106 · #9 03-05-2022, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocipede

I haven't experienced this issue yet. I can check the cassettes I have in the shop on Monday.

Thank you very much!

carlucci1106 · #10 03-16-2022, 02:13 PM

For anyone who was following this, and may want to know compatibility:

I'll paraphrase Buddy's answer here, as he gave a longer response as to my specific situation.

-There is an update pending for the Ekar cassette which will alleviate issues with the spoke interference with some classic flange hubs, which may now have freehub conversions available. However, the update has yet to be implemented

-Once the change is implemented, Campy will offer a retrofit kit to current Ekar cassettes

-Campagnolo does not recommend retrofitting lower-profile bolts (my words: I'm sure this is the reason that the update may be taking some time)

-Industry Nine showed a version of the cassette that does not presently exist in production*

My commentary:
-*(hence why it has been taken off of their website, and replaced with a graphic that states their classic flange Torch road-series are not compatible)

As an above poster mentioned, there are classic flange hubs by certain manufacturers where clearance is not a problem. Obviously, as some wheels are assymetric, they might play well on these builds, too. And of course flange heights will differ across models.

So, whether your conversion freehub will work with an existing standard flange wheel or not is a question for your specific hub manufacturer- and no one should interpret this as a blanket incompatibility with non-straight pull conversions to the N3W standard

sanslait · #11 05-28-2022, 12:46 PM

I recently built up a sweet set of Light Bicycle WR40 wheels with the Torch hubs and ran into this same issue... I was stressed at first but was able to take a hand file to the top few mm's of those button screw tops and now the cassette spins freely with a bit of room to spare! Might miss out on cassette warranty if anything goes wrong but I don't think I will have any issues.

oldpotatoe · #12 05-29-2022, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC0

I purchase my groupset in December but can't say when the cassette was manufactured. The bolts are not countersunk. There is about .5mm gap from an elbow out spoke.

Sent from my SM-G996W using Tapatalk

Just happened upon this thread and gotta say, those are some burley spokes and strange how they are 'bent' at the crossings..as if the tension is too low. Right at 12 o'clock, drive side...

AC0 · #13 05-30-2022, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Just happened upon this thread and gotta say, those are some burley spokes and strange how they are 'bent' at the crossings..as if the tension is too low. Right at 12 o'clock, drive side...

They are Pillar 2018 spokes. Average DS tension is 119 kg ± 4 %. The 2.2 mm elbow might marginally increase the angle from hub to the crossing but I don't see it. It's a 28h, 2x 650B rim so the cross is relatively close to the hub.

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oldpotatoe · #14 05-30-2022, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC0

They are Pillar 2018 spokes. Average DS tension is 119 kg ± 4 %. The 2.2 mm elbow might marginally increase the angle from hub to the crossing but I don't see it. It's a 28h, 2x 650B rim so the cross is relatively close to the hub.

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Interesting....fatter 'butt' at elbow, then down to 2mm. Never built with Pillar..only Sapim and DT. Bet those are 'interesting' to get thru a XTR, DA or Record hub(small spoke holes)...

Mark McM · #15 05-30-2022, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Interesting....fatter 'butt' at elbow, then down to 2mm. Never built with Pillar..only Sapim and DT. Bet those are 'interesting' to get thru a XTR, DA or Record hub(small spoke holes)...

So-called "triple butted" spokes have been around for many years. For example, Sapim Force spokes are similar at 2.18/1.8/2.0, and DT Alpine spokes are even more extreme at 2.34/1.8/2.0. They have been primarily marketed toward tandems and loaded touring. As you note, they can be a tight fit through some flange spoke holes (which are often 2.4mm), and which is why many tandem/touring hubs have slightly larger spoke holes (2.5mm - 2.6mm).