OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[robt57]

Originally Posted by m_sasso

Some one want to interpret this, please?

My divergent writing, or the EV terms ICE and PHEV?

ICE=InternalCombustionEngine
PHEV=PluginHybridElecVehicle

[p nut]

Out here in the west, especially the places I go, gas stations are scarce, much less charge stations. As much as try to justify an EV, I can’t (without getting it as a 3rd car, which I refuse to do). I only drive 5k miles a year now. Half that is traveling to camp/bike spots.
In short, I’m not the target audience, which is why I just bought an offroad rig today with a manual transmission

But every time I see an Hyundai Ioniq 5 pass by, I keep wishing I could somehow justify a $50k 3rd vehicle.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by username

The massive spread of automobiles beginning in the first decades of the twentieth century completely overwhelmed American roads. Municipalities, states, and most of all the federal government responded by upgrading roads throughout the United States in order to accommodate cars relatively safely. If EVs continue to grow popular enough, the same will very likely happen with the electric grid.

Put another way, telling innovators not innovate—or, more absurdly, consumers not to consume more innovative products—because of disinvestment in public goods like infrastructure seems unlikely to succeed and almost certainly is bad for the nation's economic prospects over the long term.

You're right. In the past, governments and private interests worked to ensure that the public infrastructure was in place to facilitate the use of developing technologies. like automobiles.

In Germany and a few other countries, however, they are doing just the opposite. Germany is facing energy shortfalls yet is actively sabotaging the supply they have. I don't know how much sense it makes when you are short of electricity generation capacity to shut down working nuclear power stations. And their Energiewiende transformation to green power was only possible because it was underpinned by access to cheap Russian natural gas.

Now that the supply of that Russian gas has been cut, their plans are in tatters but they are still proceeding as if that supply is still forthcoming. Any country looking to electrify their society to a greater degree, shouldn't ever put themselves in a position where they have to consider rationing electricity. Not only will it frustrate consumers in the short term, but it will surely undercut confidence in such a future and will only serve to amplify resistance to such a future being imposed.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by HenryA

https://www.wsj.com/articles/toyota-...vs-11671372223

“People involved in the auto industry are largely a silent majority,” Mr. Toyoda said to reporters during a visit to Thailand. “That silent majority is wondering whether EVs are really OK to have as a single option. But they think it’s the trend so they can’t speak out loudly.”

While major rivals, including General Motors Co. and Honda Motor Co., have set dates for when their lineups will be all-EV, Toyota has stuck to a strategy of investing in a diverse lineup of vehicles that includes hydrogen-powered cars and hybrids, which combine batteries with gas engines.

The world’s biggest auto maker has said it sees hybrids, a technology it invented with the debut of the Toyota Prius in the 1990s, as an important option when EVs remain expensive and charging infrastructure is still being built out in many parts of the world. It is also developing zero-emission vehicles powered by hydrogen.”

Good to see some common sense applied.

The world's largest auto maker is Volkswagen AG...BTW-Not Toyota

VW-11 million units sold in 2021..Toyota-2.4 million BUT revenues for Toyota a little higher than VW(interesting).

https://www.zippia.com/advice/largest-car-companies/

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

The world's largest auto maker is Volkswagen AG...BTW-Not Toyota

VW-11 million units sold in 2021..Toyota-2.4 million BUT revenues for Toyota a little higher than VW(interesting).

https://www.zippia.com/advice/largest-car-companies/

Statistics is only as good as the data. From another site Toyota sold 10.5M

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ta-since-2007/

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

Statistics is only as good as the data. From another site Toyota sold 10.5M

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ta-since-2007/

10-4..not looking to argue..blame googlefoo........I guess the point is each car company's 'philosophy' with regards to future ways to move their vehicles around varies...by a lot. I think the rush to all EV is driven more by marketing than anything else. It certainly isn't because of the shortage of oil. These EVs are marketed as 'performance' vehicles, or less expensive to operate.....which is marketing 101...Any mention of EVs being 'good for the planet' elicits a lot of yawns.

[C40_guy]

Interesting article in today's Boston Globe about taking a road trip in a (non-Tesla) EV.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/01/...verlay_Results

Bottom line -- range anxiety is a thing...if you're not driving a Tesla, you may find it quite challenging to find a usable Level 2 or Level 3 charger.

A key challenge with EVs is that people in apartment buildings may not have easy access to chargers. Eventually apartment building owners will *probably* put chargers in parking lots, but for those that park on the street, chargers just may not be available for a long time.

Another hard line between the haves and have nots.

Easy enough for the "haves" to own an EV as a second or third vehicle. But, for those who can barely afford a first vehicle, and live in rental housing...

[oldpotatoe]

An interesting side note..Audis in Dakar right now are 'hybrids' in that the electric motor drives the car and a 4 cylinder ICE charges the batteries..I wonder if it's plug in?

How does the Audi Dakar car work?
Image result for are the Cars racing in Dakar all electric?
The car has three electric motor-generators (based on the Formula E car's): one on each axle, and a third attached to the 2.0-litre turbo four (from the DTM RS5), to charge the battery (newly developed by Audi). The wheels are driven solely by the electric motors, not by the petrol engine.

So is the Hino truck from Japan

[Chris(NJ)]

I've driven a few of them and the quiet, instant acceleration is fun. But they're not for me.
Much prefer the sound of a sports car, the smell of gas.
I own 2 vehicles, both manual transmission.
Maybe in 15 or 20 years I'll consider one as tech advances. But in the foreseeable future, I have no desire.

[peanutgallery]

0 to 70 in a block, can't imagine folks like my mother not evicerating entire communities as she rushes from her hair appointment to her weekly bridge game

She is set up with a good place for a charger and off street parking. Lots of short trips, good weather and $$$. Good candidate for an ev

[paredown]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

<snip>

A key challenge with EVs is that people in apartment buildings may not have easy access to chargers. Eventually apartment building owners will *probably* put chargers in parking lots, but for those that park on the street, chargers just may not be available for a long time.

Another hard line between the haves and have nots.

Easy enough for the "haves" to own an EV as a second or third vehicle. But, for those who can barely afford a first vehicle, and live in rental housing...

I pointed to this disparity in a comment on WaPo (and the fact that our tax dollars are used to support it) and got called out for being a "heartless conservative who pretends to care about the poor."

From a policy perspective, equity ought to be a goal--but it is seldom included by policy makers who skew middle class and up. One simple answer would be "free" and enhanced public transportation in all urban areas--but giving free stuff to poor people is deeply suspect in America. But we can hide it as a tax subsidy to the middle class, or a handout to businesses and everyone seems to be fine with it.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

0 to 70 in a block, can't imagine folks like my mother not evicerating entire communities as she rushes from her hair appointment to her weekly bridge game

She is set up with a good place for a charger and off street parking. Lots of short trips, good weather and $$$. Good candidate for an ev

It’s true and it’s kinda messed up. Recently experienced a brand new ford lightning. The thing is huge. This is a 7000lb vehicle that accelerates like a Porsche 911.

Starting to feel like a gun control debate where everyone knows it’s inherently unsafe but is willing to put the responsibility entirely on the user and hope for the best.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

The world's largest auto maker is Volkswagen AG...BTW-Not Toyota

VW-11 million units sold in 2021..Toyota-2.4 million BUT revenues for Toyota a little higher than VW(interesting).

https://www.zippia.com/advice/largest-car-companies/

I guess Diesel-gate didn't cause them to lose much business in the long term.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

You're right. In the past, governments and private interests worked to ensure that the public infrastructure was in place to facilitate the use of developing technologies. like automobiles.

In Germany and a few other countries, however, they are doing just the opposite. Germany is facing energy shortfalls yet is actively sabotaging the supply they have. I don't know how much sense it makes when you are short of electricity generation capacity to shut down working nuclear power stations. And their Energiewiende transformation to green power was only possible because it was underpinned by access to cheap Russian natural gas.

Now that the supply of that Russian gas has been cut, their plans are in tatters but they are still proceeding as if that supply is still forthcoming. Any country looking to electrify their society to a greater degree, shouldn't ever put themselves in a position where they have to consider rationing electricity. Not only will it frustrate consumers in the short term, but it will surely undercut confidence in such a future and will only serve to amplify resistance to such a future being imposed.

See any similarities with what California is doing?

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by MikeD

I guess Diesel-gate didn't cause them to lose much business in the long term.

They really didn't.

No real impact in Europe, none in China:

https://carsalesbase.com/europe-volkswagen/

https://carsalesbase.com/china-volkswagen/

Some impact in US:

https://carsalesbase.com/us-volkswagen/

Dieselgate broke in September 2015 and really was a US-centric branding challenge...but most people who don't drive diesels probably couldn't tell you what it was...