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[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by CaptStash

I think your numbers don’t work. His results were 2,000 nanograms. Aren’t you talking micrograms? I think one thousand nanograms is one microgram. Besides, the test result show the amount in his bloodstream, so the amount you inhale v. What’s in your bloodstream should be quite different.

I too have EIA and need more than two puffs.. I’m interested to hear how many puffs Froome claims to have taken.

CaptStash....

I was just about to write this. He would not have had to take 22 times the dosage to produce his test results. All else being equal in terms of his physiology he would have had to taken more than double the maximum allowable dosage that day (assuming that the allowable limit in blood would not be triggered by the daily maximum dosage to allow for variance).

Many it was tainted Spanish air from a herd of asthmatic cows that were near the course.

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

I was just about to write this. He would not have had to take 22 times the dosage to produce his test results. ...

I was just googling this as well. In theory, one puff is 100mcg, right?? But does that mean all 100mcg can be detected?
And yeah, so how does someone actually accumulate 20x the effective dose in their body, considering not all of a puff is going to be absorbed into the lungs, and some would be metabolized before his urine test........That kind of tells me he must have used a **** load of the stuff.

My non-medical understanding is that once your lungs are 'open', further dosages won't help with breathing. But I guess they -will- have a strong stimulant effect?

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by CaptStash

I think your numbers don’t work. His results were 2,000 nanograms. Aren’t you talking micrograms? I think one thousand nanograms is one microgram. Besides, the test result show the amount in his bloodstream, so the amount you inhale v. What’s in your bloodstream should be quite different.

I too have EIA and need more than two puffs.. I’m interested to hear how many puffs Froome claims to have taken.

CaptStash....

Gah. Missed the nanograms. So they are measuring what actually gets into the bloodstream, not what was administered. No comment on that, I have no idea what that would be. I'll edit my original post.

[Idris Icabod]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

Gah. Missed the nanograms. So they are measuring what actually gets into the bloodstream, not what was administered. No comment on that, I have no idea what that would be. I'll edit my original post.

They measured what was in the urine, so excreted not blood levels. There is a certain % of bioavailability, then a % that is metabolised and excreted and a % that is excreted unmodified. It really isn't as easy as extrapolating concentration in urine to figure number of puffs he took on his inhaler. If he injected it, then bioavailability is 100%*

*Hopefully not bro-science, 20 years as a scientist in pharma.

[benb]

I wish I could have come down with EIA in my twenties, it would have been so nice to have that performance boost EIA seems to give.

Always noticed it seemed the further up the competitive ladder you got the higher % of cyclists seemed to have EIA till you got to the top pros and they seemingly all have it. Amazing our sport self selects for people with a bronchial syndrome the same way basketball selects for height.

[Keith A]

So how much help does Salbutamol provide?

[Anarchist]

Originally Posted by Keith A

So how much help does Salbutamol provide?

Significant, as a masking agent.

[Keith A]

Originally Posted by Anarchist

Significant, as a masking agent.

So someone would use this drug not because of the benefits in and of itself, but to hide something else they are taking?

[glepore]

Thanks for the link above. I'm running around like chicken little now.

[FlashUNC]

Wiggo at least had sense enough to get out before the doping allegations caught up to him while he was still racing.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Keith A

So someone would use this drug not because of the benefits in and of itself, but to hide something else they are taking?

It's also taken just cause of "peloton knowledge". People seem to take it and/or get faulty diagnoses just cause they think it helps. Could just be placebo effect.

At least that was what I heard through the grapevine at the amateur level.

[54ny77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

Originally Posted by Keith A

So how much help does Salbutamol provide?

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Keith A

So how much help does Salbutamol provide?

For a completely anecdotal experience from a couple years ago:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...99#post1821599

I was like Froome, but sick, fat and ignorant to the science. Did help me feel better on the bike though after the illness.

[montag]

Originally Posted by Keith A

So how much help does Salbutamol provide?

Here's a systematic review on the subject.

"In conclusion, no significant effects were detected for inhaled β2-agonists on endurance, strength or sprint performance in healthy athletes. There is some evidence indicating that systemic β2-agonists may have a positive effect on physical performance in healthy subjects, but the evidence base is weak."

I suspect these guys are using them IV (systemic)...

[shovelhd]

Originally Posted by montag

Here's a systematic review on the subject.

"In conclusion, no significant effects were detected for inhaled β2-agonists on endurance, strength or sprint performance in healthy athletes. There is some evidence indicating that systemic β2-agonists may have a positive effect on physical performance in healthy subjects, but the evidence base is weak."

I suspect these guys are using them IV (systemic)...

Which would be against the rules.