Gruppo tyranny!

[Kontact]

As a high schooler in the '80s my friends and I got into road cycling. I was so impressed with the style of my girlfriends Trek 560 with Ofmega cranks, Cyclone derailleurs and tiny AC 300G calipers. Most of my friends bought bikes with 105 or Exage, which was all wonderfully functional but had such clunky looking cranks with black plastic dust caps. I built an all Campy bike which I loved, but had to put up with less comfortable brake hoods. But bikes didn't come with mixes of parts anymore, and even Suntour got with the program by offering even lower end complete groups like Blaze instead of the usual DiaCompe/Suntour/SR blend.

And then Bridgestone in the early '90s told Shimano "No" and went with Sugino cranks, bar ends and DiaCompe - and I was in awe. And the bikes looked good - Shimano cranks and painted parts were so boring in comparison. And this was the beginning of the billet parts craze, so non-group hubs, BBs and seat posts were mixing things up.


Since that first Campy bike, I haven't owned a single road bike with a complete group. Since my mountain bike started as a frame, that got the same treatment - Sugino, Diacompe, Sachs, Shimano and Grip Shift. Since then I'm always most pleased with a Ritchey or Stronglight crank and Mavic derailleur instead Ultegra, or Record, or Force.

But the gruppo is not to be denied. Shimano has made it's parts less cross compatible of late and Campy won't give you a full warranty if you don't buy a complete groupset. Some bikes come with mixed parts, but usually as a cheap out with FSA cranks and painted calipers. Yucko.


I would love to see more of an a la carte approach to parts again where alternative cranks, brakes and (impossibly) levers lets us hone in on the components that fit us best without giving up functionality or warranty coverage.


Do you like mix and match, or should bikes only have complete groups with matching bar/stem/seat post sets? And do increasingly proprietary system parts piss you off?

[cadence90]

As long as the gruppo itself is thoroughly modern (at least 21st century, but preferably post-2010); is as complete as possible (including cables, etc.); is of the same production year and model; is color-coordinated; is in top functional and aesthetic condition; and is designed and fabricated by Campagnolo, I'm totally fine with lots and lots of variation....
.
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[cmg]

tried to use campy centaur brake holders and pads on Record skeleton calipers, NO, not even interchangeable bolts. as long as it's earlier then 2015 there's a better chance of interchangeability. used Dura ace brakes with campy shifters, best of both worlds, lots of spread when it came time for wheel change. nope, all of mine are cobbled together no groupsets.

[bironi]

Both Campy and Shimano need Component Corps to police the streets, alleys, trails woods, deserts, mountains and the universe to make sure conformity is maintained. Death to the nonconformists.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Kontact

As a high schooler in the '80s my friends and I got into road cycling. I was so impressed with the style of my girlfriends Trek 560 with Ofmega cranks, Cyclone derailleurs and tiny AC 300G calipers. Most of my friends bought bikes with 105 or Exage, which was all wonderfully functional but had such clunky looking cranks with black plastic dust caps. I built an all Campy bike which I loved, but had to put up with less comfortable brake hoods. But bikes didn't come with mixes of parts anymore, and even Suntour got with the program by offering even lower end complete groups like Blaze instead of the usual DiaCompe/Suntour/SR blend.

And then Bridgestone in the early '90s told Shimano "No" and went with Sugino cranks, bar ends and DiaCompe - and I was in awe. And the bikes looked good - Shimano cranks and painted parts were so boring in comparison. And this was the beginning of the billet parts craze, so non-group hubs, BBs and seat posts were mixing things up.


Since that first Campy bike, I haven't owned a single road bike with a complete group. Since my mountain bike started as a frame, that got the same treatment - Sugino, Diacompe, Sachs, Shimano and Grip Shift. Since then I'm always most pleased with a Ritchey or Stronglight crank and Mavic derailleur instead Ultegra, or Record, or Force.

But the gruppo is not to be denied. Shimano has made it's parts less cross compatible of late and Campy won't give you a full warranty if you don't buy a complete groupset. Some bikes come with mixed parts, but usually as a cheap out with FSA cranks and painted calipers. Yucko.


I would love to see more of an a la carte approach to parts again where alternative cranks, brakes and (impossibly) levers lets us hone in on the components that fit us best without giving up functionality or warranty coverage.


Do you like mix and match, or should bikes only have complete groups with matching bar/stem/seat post sets? And do increasingly proprietary system parts piss you off?

?? Break a 2015 SuperRecord rear der on a bike that might have Sugino cranks and if the part isn't from some sort of 'alternatve' distro channel, they will warranty it. You warranty the part, not the bike..for ala cart bikes that start life as a frame..like at Vecchio's.

I guess you ARE talking 'bikesouttaboxes'..yes?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by cmg

tried to use campy centaur brake holders and pads on Record skeleton calipers, NO, not even interchangeable bolts. as long as it's earlier then 2015 there's a better chance of interchangeability. used Dura ace brakes with campy shifters, best of both worlds, lots of spread when it came time for wheel change. nope, all of mine are cobbled together no groupsets.

If you use the Record brake block holder bolt with the Centaur holders, pretty sure that would work..since the caliper arms are thinner.

[bicycletricycle]

The new shared 11 speed spacing has helped with group mixing.

[Davist]

I think it was Cannondale that sued ?Shimano or ?Suntour at the time to break up groups/get rid of the stranglehold, sometime in the late 80s early 90s. If I recall correctly they wanted to use SRAM/gripshift on MTBs. Led to the death of Shimano seatposts anyway...

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

?? Break a 2015 SuperRecord rear der on a bike that might have Sugino cranks and if the part isn't from some sort of 'alternatve' distro channel, they will warranty it. You warranty the part, not the bike..for ala cart bikes that start life as a frame..like at Vecchio's.

I guess you ARE talking 'bikesouttaboxes'..yes?

No, when you buy a full group from a Campy distributor like QBP Campy would extend the warranty. We ran into this when someone wanted Super Record for their Cervelo RCA, but the oddball version of BBright they used on the RCA wouldn't work with any of the available BBright to Campy adapters. Instead of accepting the decreased warranty coverage, the customer went Dura Ace.

I think it was Cannondale that sued ?Shimano or ?Suntour at the time to break up groups/get rid of the stranglehold, sometime in the late 80s early 90s. If I recall correctly they wanted to use SRAM/gripshift on MTBs. Led to the death of Shimano seatposts anyway...

I think that suit referenced the deal Bridgestone was getting.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Kontact

No, when you buy a full group from a Campy distributor like QBP Campy would extend the warranty. We ran into this when someone wanted Super Record for their Cervelo RCA, but the oddball version of BBright they used on the RCA wouldn't work with any of the available BBright to Campy adapters. Instead of accepting the decreased warranty coverage, the customer went Dura Ace.



I think that suit referenced the deal Bridgestone was getting.

Campagnolo NA, the only place you ought to talk to about Campagnolo warranty. I don’t get ‘reduced warranty coverage’. The parts are warrantied, something breaks, you send that back, not the whole group.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Campagnolo NA, the only place you ought to talk to about Campagnolo warranty. I don’t get ‘reduced warranty coverage’. The parts are warrantied, something breaks, you send that back, not the whole group.

I didn't say you had to send the whole group in for warranty service, I said that Campagnolo offered a longer than 3 year warranty if you bought the complete group. I think they extended it to five years.

So when your derailleur blew an abrasion plate at 4 years, Campagnolo would cover the derailleur if it was part of a complete group purchased together. If it was not part of complete group purchase the derailleur was a year out of warranty.


This was in 2014 and parts purchased through QBP (an official Campy tech/warranty group at the time) that I encountered this, so I can't tell you every situation this does or does not apply to. The point was that Campy has/had a policy that gave more warranty to some Campy buyers over others to encourage group buying.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Kontact

I didn't say you had to send the whole group in for warranty service, I said that Campagnolo offered a longer than 3 year warranty if you bought the complete group. I think they extended it to five years.

So when your derailleur blew an abrasion plate at 4 years, Campagnolo would cover the derailleur if it was part of a complete group purchased together. If it was not part of complete group purchase the derailleur was a year out of warranty.


This was in 2014 and parts purchased through QBP (an official Campy tech/warranty group at the time) that I encountered this, so I can't tell you every situation this does or does not apply to. The point was that Campy has/had a policy that gave more warranty to some Campy buyers over others to encourage group buying.

This-

Campagnolo has extended its warranty on 11-speed groupsets from three to four years, which is two years more than that required by the consumer protection laws of the European Union.

In order for the warranty to be extended to four years, the transmission must be complete (Ergopower controls, rear derailleur, front derailleur, chain, sprocket set, and crankset) and the purchaser must register at the new Campagnolo 11-Speed

Otherwise-3 years...

[AngryScientist]

i've got a LOT of bikes, and very few of them have full complete groups.

my latest zanc, which i ride the most these days and built exactly the way i wanted it for example has a mix of the following:

-Record-11 levers
-chorus FD
-Potenza mid cage RD
-6800 cassette
-white industries VBC crankset (46/30)

i have realized that i never used the top 1/4 of my gear range on standard components. swapping to a 46 big ring let's me stay in that ring and use the full cassette range for most of my riding.

the above component mix is ideal for my riding, and everything works together perfectly.