Betsema is back...so conflicted.

[pasadena]

Sophie De Vuyst's b sample positive for anabolic steroids.
Hired Betsema's laywer.

Yeah for the Dutch and Belgians. We're back to anabolic steroids maybe one day they can upgrade to CERA EPO

[chiasticon]

Originally Posted by pasadena

sudden dropped weight and sudden jump to the podium contenders, two seperate races failed tests, weightlifting hubby, and popped for anabolic steroids.

second time I've seen this mentioned in passing today (other was in a CyclingTips comment). any source for this?

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Can she even race the world championships.... no, right?

I saw otherwise, actually; that if she does well this weekend, could race worlds.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

The tweet from the team said she 'proved' it was bad stuff..how?

allegedly had a WADA lab investigate the supplements which were tainted.

I've got mixed reactions on this. for one, her meteoric rise didn't pass the smell test last year and I was always suspicious. so when she got popped, it made sense. this back-dated ban, during the off-season, also reeks. coupled with the classic "it was unintentional and something I ate was tainted!" line. still... I supposed it is possible. the bad part of it is that if she did 100% not intend to cheat, it's very difficult for anyone to ever completely believe her. it's hard enough to believe people that haven't been caught...

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by chiasticon

I supposed it is possible. the bad part of it is that if she did 100% not intend to cheat, it's very difficult for anyone to ever completely believe her. it's hard enough to believe people that haven't been caught...

I don't think most of the women's pro peloton has enough $$ to afford doping products or pay for doping products when they DO win races.

Men? Different story. Careers can be made by winning stages or spring classics

M

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by chiasticon

I saw otherwise, actually; that if she does well this weekend, could race worlds.

Yeah, my question wasn't only if it's technically possible, but also fair to the other girls. Even with Marianne Vos out due to surgery she ain't gonna bump any of these girls:

Annemarie Worst
Ceylin Del Carmen Alvarado
Lucinda Brand
Yara Kastelijn

so that would mean that one week before the event they'd drop one of:

Sophie De Boer (who admittedly hasn't been her strongest), Geerte Hoeke or Maud Kapthejins.

OK sure, Betsema was far superior last year to any of those last three, but this is an honor for these girls, to be one of the 6. Would suck to be pulled last minute for someone who 72 hours ago was serving a suspension and whether intentional or not had steroids in her system for some (all) of that miracle season she had.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Gummee

I don't think most of the women's pro peloton has enough $$ to afford doping products or pay for doping products when they DO win races.

Men? Different story. Careers can be made by winning stages or spring classics

M

This almost sounds like an argument against a minimum rider salary for the women (keeping them poor keeps them from doping). That's ludicrous.

I suspect that doping products aren't that expensive, depending on how you source them (such as Mexican pharmacies, or "that guy" at the gym). I suspect it is the professional doping assistance that costs money.

As far as prizes, salaries and career boots incentivizing riders to dope: History has shown that riders don't need these incentives, based on the amount of doping that has been found in the ranks of amateurs and age group competitors. And that goes for cheating in general - just go over to https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/ and you'll find plenty of stories of people who cheat for nothing more than a good Instagram story.

[m_sasso]

I don't know what kind of athlete and their level of awareness about her or his performance abilities doesn't evaluate changes in performance relatative to competitors and personal past history.

At 66 I still take part in some competitive track cycling and I certainly monitor my performance. When my performance changes, good or bad I want to know why ASAP.

Sorry, don't believe an athlete at almost any level doesn't have a clue what's going on. Thumbs down!

[sipmeister]

Originally Posted by echelon_john

The UCI is a joke. But then again so is FIFA, the NFL, the NBA, F1....the list goes on.

Every human being is a joke. All you have to is read the news or step outside and watch civilization. But seriously, I wouldn't trust supplements. Not very well regulated and a new one a week. Exactly how many cyclists in the peloton are taking them just to recover better or whatever?
I'm glad she's back. Same with Riis. Some mistakes are intentional. Some are not. I don't know the situation or the whole story. Not gonna make an assumption or come to a conclusion based on the facts or info I have, because even those are limiting. I'm gonna guess these folks and people in general inherently have good intentions, unless proven otherwise.

[Clancy]

Originally Posted by m_sasso

I don't know what kind of athlete and their level of awareness about her or his performance abilities doesn't evaluate changes in performance relatative to competitors and personal past history.

At 66 I still take part in some competitive track cycling and I certainly monitor my performance. When my performance changes, good or bad I want to know why ASAP.

Sorry, don't believe an athlete at almost any level doesn't have a clue what's going on. Thumbs down!

A serious question. If an athlete takes a tainted product, a product or supplement that has some prohibited substance, how is that different then a person eating a Subway sandwich with e-coli? I’m not being flippant. In each case the person consumes something that has been contaminated that they are unaware of and would not consume if they were.

In the case of an athlete the question then becomes were they truly unaware.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Clancy

A serious question. If an athlete takes a tainted product, a product or supplement that has some prohibited substance, how is that different then a person eating a Subway sandwich with e-coli? I’m not being flippant. In each case the person consumes something that has been contaminated that they are unaware of and would not consume if they were.

In the case of an athlete the question then becomes were they truly unaware.

YUP....Have no idea but a little google-foo and knowledge of any 'contamination' in the supplement and chances of being popped. Plus with weight lifting partner...smells like a duck.

[glepore]

Occam's razor folks. The UCI didn't hand out a light punishment because they love her. They obviously accepted as credible her defense, and she was able to show contamination.

Now, here's a sick thought. Suppose I was doping with an anabolic. I'm also using a compounding pharmacy with whom I have a "relationship". Geez, it might make sense to have my supplement compounded with a trace of the anabolic just in case my doping strategy is off...

Hmmmm.

[chiasticon]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Yeah, my question wasn't only if it's technically possible, but also fair to the other girls. Even with Marianne Vos out due to surgery she ain't gonna bump any of these girls:

Annemarie Worst
Ceylin Del Carmen Alvarado
Lucinda Brand
Yara Kastelijn

so that would mean that one week before the event they'd drop one of:

Sophie De Boer (who admittedly hasn't been her strongest), Geerte Hoeke or Maud Kapthejins.

OK sure, Betsema was far superior last year to any of those last three, but this is an honor for these girls, to be one of the 6. Would suck to be pulled last minute for someone who 72 hours ago was serving a suspension and whether intentional or not had steroids in her system for some (all) of that miracle season she had.

yeah she won't bump those top four for sure. the other three, different story. assuming Betsema is near what she was last season, at least.

the other thing is I believe that the world cup winner gets automatic entry to World Championships, and doesn't count against your nation's "allowance" of riders (or whatever). that's how it worked for the men last year at least; since Toon Aerts won the WC overall, Belgium could send more men to Worlds and Tim Merlier got that spot (it was even joked that Wout intentionally lost the WC overall at Hoogerheide so his buddy Merlier could race worlds ). so anyway... since Alvardo leads WC, with Worst in 2nd and Van Der Heijden in 4th, they have a good chance of a Dutch woman winning the overall. and thus may easily have room for Betsema.

[pbarry]

Originally Posted by Gummee

...and yeah, dopers suck. ...which leads me to the 'worship' of Pantani. Confuses the crap outta me. You either did or did not dope. You can't hate one without hating them all: Pantani, Armstrong, Virenque, Ullrich, et al all come to mind.

I reserve the right to hate selectively, even capriciously.

[Tandem Rider]

Originally Posted by glepore

Occam's razor folks. The UCI didn't hand out a light punishment because they love her. They obviously accepted as credible her defense, and she was able to show contamination.

Now, here's a sick thought. Suppose I was doping with an anabolic. I'm also using a compounding pharmacy with whom I have a "relationship". Geez, it might make sense to have my supplement compounded with a trace of the anabolic just in case my doping strategy is off...

Hmmmm.

My mind went down a similar rabbit hole, some anabolic steroids are oral, just have your pharmacist put them in, take them that way. If caught, just make sure you have at least 1 unopened bottle on hand at all times.

[Tandem Rider]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

As far as prizes, salaries and career boots incentivizing riders to dope: History has shown that riders don't need these incentives, based on the amount of doping that has been found in the ranks of amateurs and age group competitors. And that goes for cheating in general - just go over to https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/ and you'll find plenty of stories of people who cheat for nothing more than a good Instagram story.

I have seen riders dope in Master's racing. Believe me, there's no money in Master's racing, I was usually just getting my entry fee back, sometimes enough for gas money too. It's not about the money.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by pbarry

I reserve the right to hate selectively, even capriciously.

Mee too..I dislike those dopers who were also pri@ks, like LA7..I also don't like those that were part of a doping 'machine', and now profit off their 'racer' heritage, even tho tainted(like Hincapie)...

The ones that admit it, say that everybody was too(they were), take their lumps and press on...I'm ok with that....like Riis.