OT: No Cash accepted

[Mzilliox]

this is legal huh? its legal to not accept legal tender? weird... the economy really isn't real.

[William]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

this is legal huh? its legal to not accept legal tender? weird... the economy really isn't real.

That is an interesting question: Can you really be refused for trying to use legal tender? I mean a business can say they won't take it, but will that stand up if someone decided to push the issue in a legal challenge?







William

[p nut]

Some businesses don't accept pennies. Or bills larger than $20. Same idea, right?

Here is the explanation from the treasury dept:

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...al-tender.aspx

"I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy."

[Climb01742]

There are undeniable benefits to app/CC payment methods. Just not to everyone. Accepting both cash and electronic payments seems, to me anyway, ideal, fair to all, and accepting of all. But no cash feels more about what's best/easiest for the business, not customer. Maybe the answer is just to vote with our cash...or app.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by SPOKE

I’m a cash guy. Always have been. Using cash keeps me from over spending on stuff, especially non-essentials like bike parts or other toys. Once we move away from cash I think we will run into other issues created by government......

Originally Posted by William

Interesting.

Cash is tangible, crypto-currency is 1's and 0's (presumably based on cash somewhere in the ether). I guess I'm old school because I prefer to use cash for many things. I have CC's but I try to use them as little as possible. App's and PP, eh, no thanks. As far as the PL, I have purchased many things using check or cash here, if they want to PP instead, oh well, bummer for me but no skin off my nose. I just move on...






William

Actual cash bills may be a physical entity, but the value backing it is trust in the US government, which is no more physically real than 1s and 0s. I would argue that 1s and 0s are in fact more tangible and more easily subject to objective independent verification.

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

1. How is it quicker than tapping the terminal with your phone which requires no action by the clerk and is thus simpler as well?

2. How are you more informed with cash when any use of a card creates a record that's available for your perusal whenever you need and a receipt for cash can be lost or be so generic that you don't remember what it was for?

3. Getting $1000+ "refund" every year for the simplicity of tapping and/or sliding is a pretty good incentive as well. ... 30 days use of float and a 1%-4% accumulating discount on every purchase just for making life simple. Every transaction documented. What's not to like.

It's not necessarily easy for persons with limited means to take advantage of these money saving efficiencies, but it sure is worthwhile to try. It should be made easy and available to all. The less income one has, the more important it is to make every penny count.

That said, with all of my effort to avoid the use of paper/coins, I have no illusions that the system is infallible - as we discovered in 2007 (not the first and likely not the last). For that reason it is wise to maintain some form of access to a source of paper/coins as back up in the event the electronic monetary system temporarily melts down. "$5" in one's pocket can go a long way in that scenario.

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by William

That is an interesting question: Can you really be refused for trying to use legal tender? I mean a business can say they won't take it, but will that stand up if someone decided to push the issue in a legal challenge?





William

They only have to take cash (legal tender) if its for a debt. Point of sale can refuse legal tender (cash) -
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/legal-tender.asp

[chiasticon]

seems like people think it's discriminatory to refuse those who only have cash. what do you think of all the businesses that do the opposite? it's quite common, especially restaurants, food trucks, bars, etc... hell, we even have a grocery chain near us that didn't start accepting cards until a year ago; and they've been in business for decades. how many people do you think get through the line, ring up a cart full of stuff, bag it up, then realize they have no way to pay? then the bagger gets to put it all back... how many man hours did they lose over that...? how many customers...?

by the way, Lowe's self checkout near me has been cashless for years. don't have a card? you have to go the slower route. I've never seen anyone raise a stink about it.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by sitzmark

That said, with all of my effort to avoid the use of paper/coins, I have no illusions that the system is infallible - as we discovered in 2007 (not the first and likely not the last). For that reason it is wise to maintain some form of access to a source of paper/coins as back up in the event the electronic monetary system temporarily melts down. "$5" in one's pocket can go a long way in that scenario.

Both of my late parents lived through the depression. For them, that showed that paper money could be nearly worthless. For that reason, my father always kept silver and gold coins, in addition to more usual assets. The depression profoundly impacted their view of 'money'.

[zap]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Actual cash bills may be a physical entity, but the value backing it is trust in the US government, which is no more physically real than 1s and 0s. I would argue that 1s and 0s are in fact more tangible and more easily subject to objective independent verification.

I say bring back the gold standard.

[MattTuck]

cash is anonymous. Maybe it doesn't matter to you whether there is a digital record of you buying a salad. But maybe there are things that it does matter.

As for speed of cash transactions, I always remember as a kid at Wendy's... they had the little machine that would spit out the perfect amount of change into that little cup on the side of the register. I remember being amazed at that.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by zap

I say bring back the gold standard.

Here here!

Now, where's Ray? I imagine he is sipping drinks on a beach somewhere after cashing in his bitcoin.

[charliedid]

Curating the class of your customer base by going cashless.

[jh_on_the_cape]

Can you get pre-paid debit cards that are anonymous? I am asking for my friend... Jason Bourne!

Originally Posted by MattTuck

cash is anonymous. Maybe it doesn't matter to you whether there is a digital record of you buying a salad. But maybe there are things that it does matter.

As for speed of cash transactions, I always remember as a kid at Wendy's... they had the little machine that would spit out the perfect amount of change into that little cup on the side of the register. I remember being amazed at that.

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

Both of my late parents lived through the depression. For them, that showed that paper money could be nearly worthless. For that reason, my father always kept silver and gold coins, in addition to more usual assets. The depression profoundly impacted their view of 'money'.

In that case gold has value only to the extent that someone values it more than wampum. Gold has industrial use, so some intrinsic value where wampum doesn't, but outside of an industrial use (that will probably be shut down in such an environment) gold has no guaranteed value. How do you get "change" for (what was) a $1,000+ krugerrand when buying emergency staples in a melt down? A paper IOU from the merchant? Cut the coin into small pieces? What is the value of each piece? Cut a small piece into a smaller piece to buy just a loaf of bread?

The value of US tender might very well devalue significantly in a great depression, but more than likely it devalues equally for everyone. i.e. $1.00 is only worth $.10, so relative purchasing power remains similar.