Partington gives Lightweight a run for their money?

[merckx]

I punted all of my aero---carbon---low spoke count weeks some time ago when I stopped pinning a number on. I now ride box sectioned alloy wheels again like I did at the start of my cycling career. I'm happy AF as the kids now say. So, I think what the windsurfer was trying to articulate is that there is not a significant aerodynamic difference between most wheelsets today, ahem, excluding 32 spoke box section wheels. The marketing hyperbole will try to steer you otherwise, but the fact of the matter is, most modern wheels are not going to tip the balance of a result sheet, or your time trial run to the local pub. It's all of the other rubbish that makes a more significant difference like, how you sit on the machine, where your hands and arms are located, clothing, and to a lesser extent: helmet shape, frame profile, and yes, wheels fill in the margins.

[bicycletricycle]

Everyone involved in this conversation is in the weekend masters race to the coffee shop use whatever you want group. Actually, most of the people paying money for expensive carbon wheels like this are in that group.

It’s like buying a car based off of its Nurburgring time, silly

Originally Posted by oldguy00

This. I was gonna say it, but figured I'd avoid the arguement.......

But.....joking aside, if you are buying for pure bling or bragging rights, go for it. But it is pretty well known, backed by actual science, that aero trumps weight. Not only are the spokes on these wheels slow, but the depth of the rim is 'slow' as well.
Now, fine, you can argue that, for example, 1 minute over 40km doesn't mean anything to you, but in that case, why are you riding any expensive wheel in the first place?

To a time trialist or triathlete, 1 minute over 40km is a -lot-. To a road racer, the watts that the more aero wheel will save can mean a lot over a 3 hour road race.

To the folks on the weekend masters worlds race to the coffee shop, yes, use whatever makes you happy.

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Everyone involved in this conversation is in the weekend masters race to the coffee shop use whatever you want group. Actually, most of the people paying money for expensive carbon wheels like this are in that group.

It’s like buying a car based off of its Nurburgring time, silly

Well, agree to disagree.
I participate in triathlons and I like to try to place as high as I can, often on the podium for local events. In a event as short as a 'sprint' distance, in which the bike is 20km, if I miss the podium by 5 seconds and I was using a wheelset like the one mentioned in this thread, its fair to say I would have been at least 5 seconds faster with a real aero wheelset.
And of course same for a roadie time trialist. Not everyone on this forum ONLY does donut rides.

[bicycletricycle]

Obviously people here compete. It isn't clear to me how competing in a local TT or Tri is any different than the proverbial "weekend masters worlds". Those are real competitions that have just as much on the line, pride, ego, sense of accomplishment, etc.

For me, if you aren't supporting yourself riding your bike than it is all just some version of a coffee shop race. Nothing is riding on your efforts other than your ego. Spending money to win with more aero wheels isn't actually helping you accomplish anything "important" IMHO.

As a side note, the testing that is done to estimate the watts savings on wheels is not very realistic or convincing. Certainly some wheels are more aero than others. Right now we just know which ones are more aero in a simplified wind tunnel or simulation.

All this being said, if people who don't really understand aerodynamics want to trust manufacturer data when spending huge amounts of money on wheels so that they can win coffee rides or local organized events, I got no problem with that.

Originally Posted by oldguy00

Well, agree to disagree.
I participate in triathlons and I like to try to place as high as I can, often on the podium for local events. In a event as short as a 'sprint' distance, in which the bike is 20km, if I miss the podium by 5 seconds and I was using a wheelset like the one mentioned in this thread, its fair to say I would have been at least 5 seconds faster with a real aero wheelset.
And of course same for a roadie time trialist. Not everyone on this forum ONLY does donut rides.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Spending money to win with more aero wheels isn't actually helping you accomplish anything "important" IMHO.

.

we can even flip oldguy's thinking on it's side. suppose he estimates that his $5k wheels saved him 5s over a flat TT. What if he beats his next closest competitor by 5s, but that guy is on open pros.

who really won?

[bicycletricycle]

Indeed, I like sports but they are strange. The higher the equipment to participant ratio gets the stranger. If you win because you purchased really expensive wheels who are you celebrating on the podium? Your checkbook? the engineer who designed the wheels?

Again, to be clear. I have no problem with any of this and if it is your thing than go for it. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Although I do like to watch F1 which is perhaps the strangest sport, almost like watching 2 states in an all out war.

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

we can even flip oldguy's thinking on it's side. suppose he estimates that his $5k wheels saved him 5s over a flat TT. What if he beats his next closest competitor by 5s, but that guy is on open pros.

who really won?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

For me, if you aren't supporting yourself riding your bike than it is all just some version of a coffee shop race. Nothing is riding on your efforts other than your ego. Spending money to win with more aero wheels isn't actually helping you accomplish anything "important" IMHO.

What? Beating your local buddies to the coffee shop by 0.2 seconds for nothing more than bragging rights is not important? Why, that's heresy! Burn the blasphemer!

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Again, to be clear. I have no problem with any of this and if it is your thing than go for it. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Although I do like to watch F1 which is perhaps the strangest sport, almost like watching 2 states in an all out war.

Speaking of which, this was overheard at an auto museum:

Tour guide: "The 1st automobile was invented by Karl Benz in 1885."

Small child: "When did they start racing automobiles?"

Tour guide: "Just after the invention of the 2nd automobile."

[barnabyjones]

Are these wheels stiff? I like the stiff wheels. Over the years on flat or slightly uphill sprints I've had the same top end. I don't have a PhD in physics or aerodynamics and I wasn't the most dedicated Train w/ Power Type. Which means I don't pour over the Training Peaks numbers. So, I'm sure there were days when I was at a disadvantage sprinting on 90s era aluminum rims but I'd still hit 40mph at greater or lower effort due to better positioning or extra wind behind my back. Anyway, one area where I'm delusionally convinced modern carbon wheels offer an advantage is on short, 100 to 200M, power climbs. The 10% grades you hit on certain parcours over and over and in race conditions you better hold 25mph or risk getting gapped out. So, is stiff faster on short uphill sprints? I convinced myself this is the case. Placebo?

[bicycletricycle]

They probably figured out a way to race that first one as well

Originally Posted by Mark McM

What? Beating your local buddies to the coffee shop by 0.2 seconds for nothing more than bragging rights is not important? Why, that's heresy! Burn the blasphemer!



Speaking of which, this was overheard at an auto museum:

Tour guide: "The 1st automobile was invented by Karl Benz in 1885."

Small child: "When did they start racing automobiles?"

Tour guide: "Just after the invention of the 2nd automobile."

[Big Dan]

No idea about this wheelset, but in general wheels provide great bang for the buck for your ride. Possibly faster on a cheap frame with great wheels than on a great frame with cheap wheels.

[Davist]

Originally Posted by Big Dan

No idea about this wheelset, but in general wheels provide great bang for the buck for your ride. Possibly faster on a cheap frame with great wheels than on a great frame with cheap wheels.

Agreed. Killed my left shifter on my Canyon ultimate, put my "go fast" wheels on the carbonda gravel bike with 1x, kept up just fine. Wheels are the thing.. yes, both are value bikes based on some budgets around here, but I woulda thought the frame/rest made a bigger difference (about 1/2 mph overall, of which part was being spun out downhills around 30mph vs higher) decidedly non scientific blah blah blah