OT: Audio Part 7 - Talk to me about Subs

[FlashUNC]

To quote Bird Man:

Four 15s, didn't see no wires, then I heard boom from the amplifiers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iCd6UHR-3I

[benb]

I used to have a Velodyne, IIRC it was 15", but maybe it was 12".

To be honest it was mostly useful for movies/home theater. BOOM is a big part of it.

I didn't really feel like it was necessary for music. I'm not even sure I really believe that much music is mastered to take advantage of it. The other thing the Sub is great for is ANNOYING PEOPLE. One place I lived you could scare people at the bus stop outside with the Sub.

I actually had trouble with the velodyne vibrating it's speaker cable connection off internally. On the speaker end. But it was an easy fix once it got opened up.

For both electric guitar and bass 12" is the most common speaker size, so you certainly don't need a 15" sub to reproduce those... the engineer has rolled off the sub-bass frequencies anyway. Lowest note on a piano is 27.5hz and a Bass is 30hz. I don't know which instrument actually produces BOOM like the movies. Even real explosions don't necessarily sound like the movies. I play guitar.. the sub never felt like being in the room with a bassist anyway.

[pjm]

This guy usually does car stuff on his channel, but he built this subwoofer kit recently. The cabinet seems pretty decent.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r4U1KNDDNYE

[glepore]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Their SCS model could fit under a (tall) sofa or discreetly in the corners/along the walls of most living spaces. Their S90i model can be installed inwall, fitting in a standard depth studbay. Their STS model is almost as impractical as those "el pipe o" subs, but holy crap does it sound good.

Maybe I'd actually like those "el pipe o" subs? Ha! The missus will ensure I never find out!

Never saw those, but using the dead space between studs occurred to me. Size the chamber appropriately and just use a port with a duct cover on the top, invisible. So the missus might never know.

[Ken Robb]

Since you don't want to shake the neighborhood but just round out the music a bit maybe the best solution would be to trade you speakers for some with better bass?

Last month I went with a pal who wanted some decent speakers for his just-remodeled home office with a budget around $500. He has Klipsch Cornwalls in his living room.

We listened to two different B+W bookshelf speakers. They were both crisp for mids/highs but the smaller pair absolutely needed a sub and the slightly larger pair might have been marginally acceptable. Then we heard a pair of Golden Ear bookshelf models that were in slightly trapezoidal cabinets and we were both amazed. We agreed that if we had auditioned them behind a curtain we would have guessed we were listening to much larger speakers. They seem to do wonders with a 6" woofer and two similar-sized passive radiators in a small enclosure. The tweeter is a really good ribbon design. About an hour after my pal got home and hooked them up his wife called me "to thank me for helping John find such wonderful speakers". How often does THAT happen. These list for $800 a pair and there is a similar model that is slightly larger and uses a 7" woofer. They both get well under 50HZ before rolling off much.

Golden Ears also makes larger systems that I'll bet are excellent too. I'm still happy with my Vandersteen 2CE Signatures. I added a Vandersteen sub a few years ago and it was probably a waste of $$ for me because the main speakers have plenty of low-end for music and I really don't watch films with a bunch of fake explosions.

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by benb

I used to have a Velodyne, IIRC it was 15", but maybe it was 12".

To be honest it was mostly useful for movies/home theater. BOOM is a big part of it.

I didn't really feel like it was necessary for music. I'm not even sure I really believe that much music is mastered to take advantage of it. The other thing the Sub is great for is ANNOYING PEOPLE. One place I lived you could scare people at the bus stop outside with the Sub.

I actually had trouble with the velodyne vibrating it's speaker cable connection off internally. On the speaker end. But it was an easy fix once it got opened up.

For both electric guitar and bass 12" is the most common speaker size, so you certainly don't need a 15" sub to reproduce those... the engineer has rolled off the sub-bass frequencies anyway. Lowest note on a piano is 27.5hz and a Bass is 30hz. I don't know which instrument actually produces BOOM like the movies. Even real explosions don't necessarily sound like the movies. I play guitar.. the sub never felt like being in the room with a bassist anyway.

Setting up a sub for AV listening and setting up for seamless 2 channel integration are very different things.

Everything above sounds like setup for action movies and that will not sound good or cohesive with 2 channel. Subs should be subtle (low crossover at 50-55Hz and low gain set etc.) but most people cannot get themselves to run near the very bottom of crossover and set the gain to 3 of 10.

If they feel invisible in your system yet are clearly missed when shut off, you have the balance right for 2 channel. I run 4 x 10" 800W subs and they are very cohesive and never sound bloated.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

Golden Ears also makes larger systems that I'll bet are excellent too. I'm still happy with my Vandersteen 2CE Signatures. I added a Vandersteen sub a few years ago and it was probably a waste of $$ for me because the main speakers have plenty of low-end for music and I really don't watch films with a bunch of fake explosions.

When I had my stereo I had floorstanding speakers which had 2x6.5" drivers. Mine were Klipsch so they had a horn.

Maybe why I never really cared that much about the sub for music. It's definitely different with little bookshelves, the Sub can be nice.

I would say I'm fairly glad I don't really know but I do think the boom sounds are probably fake. Things I have experienced.. gun shots, loud fireworks explosions that were large enough I could see a visible shockwave (this was on the water), rocket launches to orbit at KSC. None sounded like the low frequency effects hollywood uses. At safe distances the rocket launch was fairly disappointing based on my hollywood expectations.

[rnhood]

If you're buying a sub for music, REL makes the better subs, imho. Even the cheaper ones are excellent.

[Peter P.]

I have a passive subwoofer (38-150Hz) which I've run with a pair of bookshelf speakers as well as a pair of Klipsch Heresy's, both which have @50Hz low ends. The sub is a Klipsch kg sw. It's no longer made and hard to find. 2-8" dual voice coil woofers in a bandpass enclosure.

It made a tangible improvement in both speakers. As a plus, since it had no external amplification there was no standby current draw.

Other than the extra wiring and and size of the box, it was/is worth it.

After two years of being unable to find a second kg sw and after much searching, I bought a svsound SB-1000. I wanted a sealed sub because they better match my sealed Heresy's and generally speaking, all the literature, including on the svsound web site, recommend a sealed sub for music, unless you're into slamming bass.

I bought from the svsound outlet and saved $50 on the cost. The company promptly and in detail answered my e-mail questions.

The SB-1000 is a small 12" cube which can be tucked just about anywhere. Its low power standby mode costs me a whopping 36 cents per year! I can't say enough good things about this sub.

[William]

That studway woofer is a great idea...except if you move you are leaving a piece of your audio equipment behind.







W.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by William

That studway woofer is a great idea...except if you move you are leaving a piece of your audio equipment behind.

You need a realtor well-versed in Capital Improvement.

[William]

Well, I talked with my audio/electronic engineer buddy and we decided to build a FrankenWoofer set up.

We started with a pair of Klipsch KSW 200 12” subwoofers and removed the built in amps, checked and modified all connections, and used nice bamboo cutting boards cut to size, sanded, and sealed the openings. Installed quality binding posts in both. He then built custom cross overs into a custom powered control box with separate R&L gain and frequency controls, power on LED, and on/off switch. FrankenWoofer is powered by a separate power amp - Carvin DCM2500 running at 850 wrms each @ 4 ohms. So far I’m very impressed at how this is working…I could rattle every window in the house with these but that’s not how I’m running them of course (at least when Mrs William is at home ).

Top of the line? Well, no but with the control I have with the crossover box and plenty of power it’s working amazingly well.








W.