Enve G23 Rear NDS Spokes De-Tensioning

[proletariandan]

Hey y'all,

Has anyone had an issue with rear NDS spokes on an Enve G23 de-tensioning?

I got a used set laced to WI CLD hubs a few months ago.

When I got them, the DS tension (according to my Park TM-1, which is 4 years old but based on other wheels still seems to be relatively accurate) was way high - like 140-150kgf.

I re/de-tensioned to bring the average DS spoke tension back town to 120kgf, which put the NDS spokes around 60-70kgf (IIRC) with no tire.

A few months later, I noticed that a few of the NDS spokes were reading below the chart (2-3 on the meter), which ends at 5 (53kgf). This is with a tubeless tire mounted, but most of the spokes were still at 53kgf per the chart.

I retensioned the rim to even things back out (or to get as close as I could) and now, ~2 months later, a couple of NDS spokes are low again.

Is this rim shot? Is there anything else I can do? I emailed Enve and they just said to bring it to a local shop, which I can do, but wanted to see if y'all had any other bright ideas. Trying to avoid an eventual broken spoke...

Thanks!
Dan

[MikeD]

Try low-strength Loctite 222 on the non-drive side spoke threads. It's hard to tell if your spoke gage is reading correctly or not. You could have under-tensioned your wheel. Park can re-calibrate these gages. Maybe cross check it against what the shop uses.

[Mark McM]

You say that the tension meter readings were accurate but ...

If the tension readings indicated that the tension was higher than it should have been for a this wheel, and then when the tension was decreased until the tension meter said they were correct but the non-drive spokes loosen up in use, you have to question whether the tension meter is reading too high, and the spokes are actually looser than you thought. I'd start by validating/calibrating the tension meter (and double checking that you reading from the right scale on the calibration chart).

[Baron Blubba]

I recommend not wasting your time. Bring the wheel to a shop, preferably an Enve dealer. Let them file a warranty for you. If the wheel is still within the warranty period, there's a good chance that it will be replaced. Unless you bought the wheels there, expect the shop to charge you an administrative service fee, or the same thing by a different name, which is completely fair: Filing the warranty and handling your outgoing and incoming wheels takes time, just like any bike service does.

I added that last disclaimer because you'd be amazed at how many people will pay lawyers thousands of dollars to make a few phone calls, but become irate when a bike shop charges them to file warranties and go back-and-forth (and back, and forth) with bike stuff suppliers on their behalf.

[adub]

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

I recommend not wasting your time. Bring the wheel to a shop, preferably an Enve dealer. Let them file a warranty for you. If the wheel is still within the warranty period, there's a good chance that it will be replaced. Unless you bought the wheels there, expect the shop to charge you an administrative service fee, or the same thing by a different name, which is completely fair: Filing the warranty and handling your outgoing and incoming wheels takes time, just like any bike service does.

I added that last disclaimer because you'd be amazed at how many people will pay lawyers thousands of dollars to make a few phone calls, but become irate when a bike shop charges them to file warranties and go back-and-forth (and back, and forth) with bike stuff suppliers on their behalf.

Great reply, exactly!

[Black Dog]

Before you dropped the tension did you check with Enve to find out the max tension for that rim with the spike count you have? Also tension drops the tire is aired. This should be accounted for when tensioning a wheel. Also, you have to be very careful about getting the spoke type correct on the park tool tension chart.

[Carbonita]

Fairly easy to make a spoke tensiometer calibration rig. I used to resolve this issue with new but poorly laced BTLOS wheels. Rig design posted in separate thread

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by proletariandan

Hey y'all,

Has anyone had an issue with rear NDS spokes on an Enve G23 de-tensioning?

I got a used set laced to WI CLD hubs a few months ago.

When I got them, the DS tension (according to my Park TM-1, which is 4 years old but based on other wheels still seems to be relatively accurate) was way high - like 140-150kgf.

I re/de-tensioned to bring the average DS spoke tension back town to 120kgf, which put the NDS spokes around 60-70kgf (IIRC) with no tire.

A few months later, I noticed that a few of the NDS spokes were reading below the chart (2-3 on the meter), which ends at 5 (53kgf). This is with a tubeless tire mounted, but most of the spokes were still at 53kgf per the chart.

I retensioned the rim to even things back out (or to get as close as I could) and now, ~2 months later, a couple of NDS spokes are low again.

Is this rim shot? Is there anything else I can do? I emailed Enve and they just said to bring it to a local shop, which I can do, but wanted to see if y'all had any other bright ideas. Trying to avoid an eventual broken spoke...

Thanks!
Dan

Was the wheel true, round when you checked the NDS tension those two times?

I 'suspect', the first tension reading, that you thought was 'too high' was proper. There are much better tension gauges out there rather than either the Park or Wheelsmith gauges. IME, 140kgf on that rim is not really 'too high;..

[proletariandan]

Thanks for the replies, all. Sounds like this is not a G23 specific issue.

I decided to give it one more go and bring everything back up to tension with the DS closer to 130kgf per the gauge. The front wheel, which I re-tensioned with the same gauge at the same time I did the rear, is still properly tensioned.

Also, FWIW, I have built 2 wheels from scratch with this gauge and they have stayed in pretty good shape after a few years of use.

Enve says the max tension is 120kgf without a tire.

Yes, the wheel has been pretty true the whole time. No noticeable hop or wobble when spinning it on the bike.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by proletariandan

Thanks for the replies, all. Sounds like this is not a G23 specific issue.

I decided to give it one more go and bring everything back up to tension with the DS closer to 130kgf per the gauge. The front wheel, which I re-tensioned with the same gauge at the same time I did the rear, is still properly tensioned.

Also, FWIW, I have built 2 wheels from scratch with this gauge and they have stayed in pretty good shape after a few years of use.

Enve says the max tension is 120kgf without a tire.

Yes, the wheel has been pretty true the whole time. No noticeable hop or wobble when spinning it on the bike.

I guess that's my point. If a couple of spokes 'loosen', then the wheel would be out of true.