SPD cleat wear

[Carbonita]

Sole searching on a rest day. SPD SH51 cleated shoes have play/rock in roll axis (bike travel direction). New SH51 cleats do not. Why? The witness marks are on the fore & aft tips (shiny area in pics). Calipers show ~0.1mm difference between old and new. Is this enough to explain rocking, or is there some other wear surface?

[dddd]

Your cleats look fine.

Recessed cleats, unlike road cleats, rely on the surface of the sole of your shoe to keep the interface tight and free of rocking play.

The shoe's sole wears down and the cleat feels forever loose!

What I have done with worn high-end SPD shoes is to carefully apply torch heat to the cleat, then crank down on the two bolts so as to further recess the cleat into the melting surface of the sole.

I have to be very careful to first shield the tread from the blast of the torch, and to observe for symmetry of how far that the front and rear ends of the cleat are sinking into the melting sole of the shoe.
The melting temperature (Tg) comes on abruptly with increasing temperature, so care and patience in heating need to be observed, but I have saved several pair of Sidi and other good SPD shoes from premature discard.
I am typically trying for about 1mm or so of melting deeper into the sole of the shoe, but the process is never quite perfect.

[dddd]

I should have mentioned that a heavy-duty soldering iron over 100W is probably better in every way than the propane torch that I have been using.

[reuben]

Intentionally melting soles. Paceline never ceases to amaze, in myriad ways. Genius.

[Carbonita]

I like the idea, but if the shoe (pontoons on both sides of cleat) rub on the pedal, would that limit float? It seems for my Shimano RX8 (rx801?) shoes that new cleats eliminate rolling due to metal/metal contact between cleat and pedal (es600 or m520).

[dddd]

Alternatively, I try to source lightly-used SPD shoes from our local Goodwill store, this being a very MTB-intensive locale.

I tend to tear up the sole tread of SPD shoes, but few of today's such shoes feature replaceable tread elements. I blame off-bike mileage for most of the wear.

[bigbill]

My old Dominators were worn down from walking through the hangar bay of a carrier after using a spin bike. It made the interface on my regular SPD pedals feel sloppy. A new pair of Dominators fixed it. My Lamson shoes are two bolt with Look (SPD) cleats and the fit is snug. I get some float but I feel resistance when my foot pivots. I use the shoes and cleats on my road bike with Xtrack pedals and XT pedals on my gravel and mountain bike.

I don't think I ever considered melting my shoes to increase contact.

[merckx]

The inherent shortcoming of the SPD systems is that foot stability requires tread contact on the pedal body. As noted, this introduces friction during foot rotation (float). The degree of friction can be adjusted. For less friction, the tread where it contacts the pedal body can be reduced with a grinder. Also, a shim can be inserted beneath the cleat so that it reduces tread pressure on the pedal. I suppose if you want to increase the friction you can spark up your torch and have at it.

It would be swell if a MTB pedal and shoe interface could be designed to function like the road counterpart where stability relies on the cleat surface area, and also benefits from the lower drag coefficient of the plastic cleat.

[merckx]

Look attempted to co-opt their road technology when they released their first recessed cleat MTB pedal system. It probably had good float characteristics and stability. It may have been too clumsy for most, and then Shimano elbowed their way into the cafeteria and ate Look for lunch. Oh well.

[merckx]

Final thoughts for the evening.....

I think the SPD system has deflected innovation for many years because it was designed for mountain biking. When it was introduced in the early 90s, most punters didn't spend more than 2 hours or so in the woods, and competitive MTB events rarely extended beyond three hours. Most fit, young, healthy-knee individuals could tolerate a pedal system that had less than optimal float characteristics.

Bike-packing, randonneuring, touring, and ultra events has significantly increased the duration that some of us are spending in the saddle while using recessed cleat shoes. My old knees would certainly benefit from a revision of the system. I can't be the only one who would be tickled to see some innovation?

[iPaul]

For rocking, especially on Time Atac pedals and cleats, I have found filing down the cleat nubs that were intended to dig in the sole. Using carbon soles they can not go deep enough so I file them down. Makes a big difference getting the rubber sole portion to sit flush. Have not needed to do this on SPD given the smaller nubs, but worth a try.

[Hindmost]

I find that cleat wear at the rear engagement point , starts round--becomes pointed, affects the rotation and disengagement feel. New is better.

[Fat Cat]

I have brand new Shimano cleats on Pearl Izumi with zero sole wear road shoes on near new Shimano road SPD pedals. They float like a mutha.

[Carbonita]

Good idea. Seems like an opportunity for after market cleat makers to have removable shims for wear compensation.

Originally Posted by iPaul

For rocking, especially on Time Atac pedals and cleats, I have found filing down the cleat nubs that were intended to dig in the sole. Using carbon soles they can not go deep enough so I file them down. Makes a big difference getting the rubber sole portion to sit flush. Have not needed to do this on SPD given the smaller nubs, but worth a try.

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by merckx

Look attempted to co-opt their road technology when they released their first recessed cleat MTB pedal system. It probably had good float characteristics and stability. It may have been too clumsy for most, and then Shimano elbowed their way into the cafeteria and ate Look for lunch. Oh well.

Ah, memories! I was an early adopter with the Look MTB pedals, still have them in a box somewhere. My recollection was that they worked well , keeping in mind the context where I was coming from years of toe clips on a learning curve that included a couple of low speed tumbles at intersections forgetting how to unclip where reaching down to loosen a toe strap was still baked in muscle memory. The pedals were bricks. But I remember that they felt smooth!

Now, 40+ years later , I like Shimano's one-sided large platform pd A600 pedals for road, they're stable with no issues with rocking with any of my many Sidi/NW/Giro/Lake shoes I've had over the years, with just a little "float" that suits me fine. But I don't understand why Shimano first "downgraded" them to Tiagra level, then replaced them altogether with the smaller platform, inferior IMHO, ES600. They were the bees knees, I'm hoarding a couple pair, fortunately they never wear out.

For people using 2 hole shoes for road/gravel, and wanting more platform and smooth-feeling float, I think Crank Brothers are under-rated, consider one of the Candy models or (sadly discontinued but found on fleabay) Quattro/road pedals. They offer more float (too much for me which is the main reason I'm on Shimano) and less "rocking" issues with the cleats---when new--- although the soft brass cleats wear out more quickly than Shimano cleats. I loved the Quattro pedals for road riding.