30 for 30 Lance part 2. Any changes?

[b33]

In front of his son's college football team he got his son's jersey number completely wrong. Like not even close. His son corrected him later. I'm sure his son got grief in the locker room.

It's all about Lance all the time - still is and will be forever. Even his own flesh and blood can't penetrate that stronghold.

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by Pegoready

I thought it was fascinating that the only time he showed any true emotion was talking about Jan Ullrich. I had no idea he felt so close to him. I'd love to delve more into that relationship.

He had a lot of pals it seems- George, various Austin characters, celebs, Frankie, his first wife Kristin, but he always appeared like he could take or leave them at any moment being the harsh person he is. What made Jan so special?

He implied that Jan was his only real rival, the only one who motivated him to train when he didn't want to, and that all the others besides Jan weren't in Lance's league. So Jan occupied Lance's thoughts a lot at the peak of his career.

I was surprised to hear Lance whine at the end about Basso being treated well by the Italians: "The country of Italy glorifies Ivan Basso, idolizes him, puts him up there, gives him jobs, invites him to races, puts him on TV. He's no different to any of us... Yet, they disgraced Marco Pantani, they destroyed him in the press, they kick him out of the sport and he's dead, he's ****ing dead." I thought that Lance and Basso were friends. In 2004 Lance gave the stage win at La Mongie to Basso because Basso's mother was sick with cancer.

[b33]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

"The country of Italy glorifies Ivan Basso, idolizes him, puts him up there, gives him jobs, invites him to races, puts him on TV. He's no different to any of us... Yet, they disgraced Marco Pantani, they destroyed him in the press, they kick him out of the sport and he's dead, he's ****ing dead."

I saw this as Lance being self-serving and telling another lie. Italy loves Pantani - they made a documentary and his funeral was huge. Then again who is going to know but some bike dorks - so no one checks.

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

He implied that Jan was his only real rival, the only one who motivated him to train when he didn't want to, and that all the others besides Jan weren't in Lance's league. So Jan occupied Lance's thoughts a lot at the peak of his career.

I was surprised to hear Lance whine at the end about Basso being treated well by the Italians: "The country of Italy glorifies Ivan Basso, idolizes him, puts him up there, gives him jobs, invites him to races, puts him on TV. He's no different to any of us... Yet, they disgraced Marco Pantani, they destroyed him in the press, they kick him out of the sport and he's dead, he's ****ing dead." I thought that Lance and Basso were friends. In 2004 Lance gave the stage win at La Mongie to Basso because Basso's mother was sick with cancer.

Ivan Basso has refused to hit back at Lance Armstrong despite the Texan's claims in the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary that Basso, along with several other ex-dopers, was "glorified" and had an easy path back to the sport after his doping suspension, still playing an active role and earn a living today

Basso also refused to criticise Armstrong for the support the Texan showed him and his family.

"To be frank, I haven’t seen the documentary and so I don’t know if he expressed himself that way. I can only say that I'll always be grateful to Lance, because he was always helpful, very helpful. When my mother Nives became ill with cancer, he did everything he could to help us. The same when I was ill in 2015. What can I say? He was always generous and there to help."

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bas...ypocrisy-rant/

[glepore]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

He implied that Jan was his only real rival, the only one who motivated him to train when he didn't want to, and that all the others besides Jan weren't in Lance's league. So Jan occupied Lance's thoughts a lot at the peak of his career.

I was surprised to hear Lance whine at the end about Basso being treated well by the Italians: "The country of Italy glorifies Ivan Basso, idolizes him, puts him up there, gives him jobs, invites him to races, puts him on TV. He's no different to any of us... Yet, they disgraced Marco Pantani, they destroyed him in the press, they kick him out of the sport and he's dead, he's ****ing dead." I thought that Lance and Basso were friends. In 2004 Lance gave the stage win at La Mongie to Basso because Basso's mother was sick with cancer.

He also mentioned George being lionized. George and Lance remain good friends. He wasn't complaining about the riders per se, but about the disparate treatment.

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by glepore

He also mentioned George being lionized. George and Lance remain good friends. He wasn't complaining about the riders per se, but about the disparate treatment.

But they’re nice guys, so ok if they doped.

[fiamme red]

Here's a better explanation of why Lance was moved by Jan's plight:

https://sports.yahoo.com/lance-armst...181624028.html

For Armstrong, Ullrich began transforming from rival to friend in 2005. After Armstrong won his last (later stripped) Tour de France that July, he was told Ullrich wanted to show up at Armstrong’s victory party in a luxury Paris hotel. Ullrich wanted to say a few words in front of hundreds of Armstrong supporters.

“If you know Jan, you know that his English is not great,” Armstrong said in a 2017 episode of one of his podcasts. “I’m just going, no, this can’t be happening. This is not real. Jan showed up and took the mic and gave a speech and talked about me and talked about us. It was the classiest thing that anybody ever did for me in my cycling career. I’ll never forget it. I love him for it.

“I wasn’t man enough to do that. If the roles were reversed, there’s no way I would have done that. But for him to do that, that’s something that I’ll never forget the rest of my life.”

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Tony T

But they’re nice guys, so ok if they doped.

And none of them won 7 tours. Oh how we love to witness the fall of the mighty.

[Pegoready]

Originally Posted by b33

In front of his son's college football team he got his son's jersey number completely wrong. Like not even close. His son corrected him later. I'm sure his son got grief in the locker room.

It's all about Lance all the time - still is and will be forever. Even his own flesh and blood can't penetrate that stronghold.

Ha, yeah, that was a little painful but to be fair he did say the number his son happened to be scrimmaging in that day. I've never played football so I don't understand the gravity of the number.

It's clear Lance showed up that day to be #1 dad for the cameras. His son's interactions with him didn't seem entirely loving or normal.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Pegoready

Ha, yeah, that was a little painful but to be fair he did say the number his son happened to be scrimmaging in that day. I've never played football so I don't understand the gravity of the number.

It's clear Lance showed up that day to be #1 dad for the cameras. His son's interactions with him didn't seem entirely loving or normal.

LOL so true both his son and daughter were a bit annoyed with him :-)

When he told his daughter to go faster in the boat was classic. Who knows how willing they were to even be part of the doc. in the first place. Being the kids of famous people isn't all it's cut out to be.

[Bentley]

I watched it, made a couple of observations

He is like a lot of successful people.. narcissistic, confident, focused... to me he does not “see” a lot of what is going on in the world.

He acknowledged he doped... basically said everyone was doing it so he did to compete.... I am not a pro, was not during that era, but a number of other people, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie... a even the guy who was not on Lance’s team seemed to say that it was the “culture” at the time.

He still has not forgiven or asked forgiveness of some of those he attacked.... Frankie and Betsy, Floyd Landis... a bunch of others. Won’t try to rationalize it.

My sense... his “odd” personality likely lead to his success, but also to his willingness to do anything to win.

There was a statement made in the show that he has a polarizing personality... I think that sums it up. You like him, or you don’t, not too much in the middle.

[gasman]

I think the strangest thing I took from it was his insistence that he wouldn't change a thing. To me that means he is unable to really examine his life and the mistakes he made. Heck, we all make mistakes.

I guess it just reflects that a true narcissist never thinks they've done anything wrong.

[Zackus]

I personally was hoping for a bit more focus on Floyd/Greg drama with an appearance by Greg. However on the other hand I understand that it was about Lance, and can understand why Greg wouldn't want to make an appearance. I enjoyed the documentary, didn't do much to chance my opinion of the man. He was incredibly competitive on and off the bike. Very strong cyclist but not a very like-able guy. That's where Greg and Floyd appeal to me more

[laupsi]

Originally Posted by LouDeeter

For seven years, I got a great deal of enjoyment watching Lance compete, and win. I have a great deal of respect for how he competed in a tough sport. The TV program told the story. I enjoyed watching it. Did it change my opinion of him, no. His personal character is what it is. Many people at the top of their field are not that far distant from him in that regard.

Sorry, you either weren’t paying attention or support the notion, the end always justifies the means. Or I’m clueless when it comes to judging other athletes.

[weisan]

Originally Posted by gasman

I guess it just reflects that a true narcissist never thinks they've done anything wrong.

Traits of a true narcissist
@Grandiose sense of self-importance.
@Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur.
@Needs constant praise and admiration.
@Sense of entitlement.
@Exploits others without guilt or shame.
@Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others.

You can't even make this stuff up!