OT: An Italy just for Italians?

[makoti]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Is their economy not tied too close to tourism to pull this feat off?

My guess is they will not be able to centralize their tourism. Makes me want to pursue an Italian Passport.

I'm actually doing this. Or, more accurately, a nephew is doing it for me. Grandfather way back died while still an Italian citizen, so I have a direct link. It's not a quick process, to be sure. Would love an EU passport.

[tylercheung]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

A reduction in over-dependence does not mean installing a moat and filling it with sharks and lasers -- it means pulling back a bit and looking at the sustainability of your economic model, its weak points, and areas to add more resilience.

I think we are all going to be doing that to some extent in the coming years. And it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

One can develop a more local and sustainable economy without xenophobia or sinophobia - though it is going to take dramatically different leadership at the federal level in our case (if you can even posit we have such today..).

Besides, as the global recession pinches, and substantially less people are getting on planes, those reliant on tourist dollars from abroad are going to have to change anyway. The demand destruction isn't going to bounce back.

That said, once it's safe, I hope to be on a plane to Italy - there is no place I would rather vacation for cycling and food. With Belgium, France, Portugal, and Spain being a close second of course.

This is true - tbh, i suspect the local economies are reeling from the Berlusconi years etc. A lot of local textile/garment factories basically are dependent on Chinese money and investors.

A policy to help reduce housing costs and jumpstart local alternatives to tourism is not a bad idea.

Case in point, Vancouver took measures to reduce the hordes of overseas real estate investors/speculators, taxing vacant properties, etc.

[Dino Suegiù]

This threatened separation/isolation will not actually happen any time soon, for many reasons, obviously mainly economics (tourism, primarily) and commerce (import/export as well as Italian sea and air ports as transit points for foreign goods into Europe and beyond).

Much of this recent news is blustery saber-rattling because Greece has loudly extended bans on travel from Italy, as well as several other countries, from visiting Greece in the near-future because of Covid-19, against which the president of the Regione Veneto Luca Zaia then threw several highly-publicized fits.

Also, many businesses in Italy, including substantial numbers in Venice and the Veneto, are not even owned by Italians any more, further weakening the isolationist rhetorical postures adopted by Zaia et al.

Catalonia and/or Euskadi; Veneto/Sicilia/Sardegna; California/Texas; Ticino; Quebec; Patagonia; parts of Brazil; etc...I would probably not bet on any true isolation or secession of any of those regions/states any time soon, despite the (serious?) 20-year+ (in some cases) threats to do just that. Even the movements within the UK, far stronger than any of those areas (except perhaps California), provides some real still-evolving lessons both positive and cautionary.

It is an interesting subject, but the Italian threat is simply neither real nor viable right now. Vacations will proceed apace and merchants will still very willingly open their doors.

[Jaybee]

I'm looking forward to Colorado being for Coloradans this summer, but i'm a little worried about what that actually means for the mountain towns I love.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

I'm looking forward to Colorado being for Coloradans this summer, but i'm a little worried about what that actually means for the mountain towns I love.

Weren't the photos someone posted here of some mountain lions (?) calmly sauntering down a street, in broad daylight during StayAtHome, from a mountain town in Colorado?

Those cats acted as if they owned the place.

Be careful what you wish for!

[echappist]

Originally Posted by Dino Suegiù

This threatened separation/isolation will not actually happen any time soon, for many reasons, obviously mainly economics (tourism, primarily) and commerce (import/export as well as Italian sea and air ports as transit points for foreign goods into Europe and beyond).

Much of this recent news is blustery saber-rattling because Greece has loudly extended bans on travel from Italy, as well as several other countries, from visiting Greece in the near-future because of Covid-19, against which the president of the Regione Veneto Luca Zaia then threw several highly-publicized fits.

Also, many businesses in Italy, including substantial numbers in Venice and the Veneto, are not even owned by Italians any more, further weakening the isolationist rhetorical postures adopted by Zaia et al.

Catalonia and/or Euskadi; Veneto/Sicilia/Sardegna; California/Texas; Ticino; Quebec; Patagonia; parts of Brazil; etc...I would probably not bet on any true isolation or secession of any of those regions/states any time soon, despite the (serious?) 20-year+ (in some cases) threats to do just that. Even the movements within the UK, far stronger than any of those areas (except perhaps California), provides some real still-evolving lessons both positive and cautionary.

It is an interesting subject, but the Italian threat is simply neither real nor viable right now. Vacations will proceed apace and merchants will still very willingly open their doors.

Thanks for the context re: Mr. Zaia

What the nyt article left out is who was behind the motion. Mr. Zaia is a member of the Lega Nord, whose separatist flags one often see at bike races (six-leafed clover). Calling the Lega right-wing is to put things mildly. They are the group who thinks Northern Italy is too good for the rest of the country and therefore should secede.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by makoti

I'm actually doing this. Or, more accurately, a nephew is doing it for me. Grandfather way back died while still an Italian citizen, so I have a direct link. It's not a quick process, to be sure. Would love an EU passport.

Yes, I don't know if I would qualify or not?...third generation here. I've read where direct descendant date of naturalization is key but unsure without some research.

[gomango]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

That said, once it's safe, I hope to be on a plane to Italy - there is no place I would rather vacation for cycling and food. With Belgium, France, Portugal, and Spain being a close second of course.

Can't say I blame you one bit.

My wife has family in northern Italy. We have been very fortunate to travel there six times in the last twenty years. We've always had an enjoyable time, but I must say the major cities like Florence, Bolzano and Milan have been over run with people just like us.

The last few years we have tried Slovenia, Croatia and even Bosnia. We'll continue to try other opportunities in Europe, but I think trips to Chile, Bolivia, Argentina and Peru also loom on the horizon after we retire.

[ultraman6970]

Read a few lines of this article, not the whole thing. Well... the issue is that italy in general depends on tourism, is not like they will able to survive w/o it. Is cool to see pictures of a clean venice but take the tourists out of the city and several bars, hotels and industry around tourism will die quite quick. For example that rents his van to move you around town, which in italy there's a lot of them.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Yes, I don't know if I would qualify or not?...third generation here. I've read where direct descendant date of naturalization is key but unsure without some research.

What I understood was that only because he died still an Italian we had the link. If he had lived long enough to become a citizen (he was working on it), we would not be able to. I luckily have an energetic nephew taking care of it. I just ran paperwork to the DC offices as needed.

[Bruce K]

With continued travel limitations and Covid concerns, this point could be moot for the near future.

After that will there be enough surviving businesses to support a resurgence of tourism if/when it comes?

BK

[ultraman6970]

Probably not, what could happen is that mob takes over because they have money.

Originally Posted by Bruce K

After that will there be enough surviving businesses to support a resurgence of tourism if/when it comes?

BK

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

With continued travel limitations and Covid concerns, this point could be moot for the near future.

After that will there be enough surviving businesses to support a resurgence of tourism if/when it comes?

BK

Of course there will be.

If a "Bar al Pantheon" or "Ristorante Uffizi" or "Hotel San Marco" or "Agriturismo Cinque Terre" go out of business, there will be others to replace them in a heartbeat, domestic- or foreign-owned.

It is not the affiliated replaceable service businesses, which undergo natural changes constantly anyway; it is the actual monuments and landscapes which are the draw, and Italy has those in abundance, more than any other place on earth per km2.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Yes, I don't know if I would qualify or not?...third generation here. I've read where direct descendant date of naturalization is key but unsure without some research.

There are many methods now to obtain Italian citizenship, even if some methods are more complicated, longer to prove, perhaps not even worth it. But, as long as one has a certified (born on or after March 17 1861) ancestor, it likely can be achieved.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by Dino Suegiù

There are many methods now to obtain Italian citizenship, even if some methods are more complicated, longer to prove, perhaps not even worth it. But, as long as one has a certified (born on or after March 17 1861) ancestor, it likely can be achieved.

Great grandmother was 18? when she came in 1895.