O.t.tesla autonomy vehicle investor day

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

The main difference between Jobs and Musk is Jobs did it all with equity capital, corporate debt and cash, and Musk did it all with equity capital, corporate debt and a MASSIVE BOATLOAD of taxpayer cash.

Except, you can equate Apple's massive tax dodging schemes as taxpayer cash. (a gov subsidy or tax expenditure are roughly the same) In this realm, Apple is the top of the heap.

[54ny77]

Fair analogy.

Apple is one of the biggest institutional investors out their with their cash hoard. Cash/treasury mgmt at that shop must be a comical nightmare to ensure tax triggers aren't tripped.

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Except, you can equate Apple's massive tax dodging schemes as taxpayer cash. (a gov subsidy or tax expenditure are roughly the same) In this realm, Apple is the top of the heap.

[pbarry]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Except, you can equate Apple's massive tax dodging schemes as taxpayer cash. (a gov subsidy or tax expenditure are roughly the same) In this realm, Apple is the top of the heap.

So true. Some folks I work with like to direct their ire on alternative energy cos. because of well publicized tax breaks on solar panels, electric cars, et al. Meanwhile Apple and many others use every loophole available to buttress their bottom lines, most of those affect Treasury's bottom line as well..

DOT allows longer driving periods and shorter breaks between weeks/restarts only for oil and gas OTR truckers. Have yet to hear anyone complain about a yuge subsidy for the fossil fuel industry.

[fogrider]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Last month Tesla began rolling out V3 superchargers that will provide up to 1000mi in an hour of charging. I’ve seen a peak of about 400mi in my experience. Usually it averages about 250 miles in an hour.

I have yet to find a V3, I can get up to 464/hr for maybe 10 minutes with V2 superchargers...just gives me enough time to get a coffee and restroom...not sure why everyone feels like they need to charge any faster...remember most of the charging is done at home overnight and never going to the gas station would be fine with me!

As for Tesla 'burning' through cash, call it what you want, but new models don't just build themselves! Apple farms out the manufacturing of their products, Tesla has to build the factories. And the superchargers don't just pop up...it all cost something and its worth something. EVs drive so much better than gas cars!

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Except, you can equate Apple's massive tax dodging schemes as taxpayer cash. (a gov subsidy or tax expenditure are roughly the same) In this realm, Apple is the top of the heap.

I can see that point, but it is a weaker argument. To my knowledge, there is no special tax break for big tech companies. It is an arbitrage of a patchwork of tax regimes that gives rise to the tax advantage. Not a tax credit directly aimed at Apples iPhone X. Further, Apple would still be profitable without the tax shenanigans.

Tesla on the other hand would certainly sell fewer cars if the subsidy was not available. And add on to that it is a tax subsidy that benefits the well to do who have the means to buy a Tesla.

Originally Posted by fogrider

I have yet to find a V3, I can get up to 464/hr for maybe 10 minutes with V2 superchargers...just gives me enough time to get a coffee and restroom...not sure why everyone feels like they need to charge any faster...remember most of the charging is done at home overnight and never going to the gas station would be fine with me!

As for Tesla 'burning' through cash, call it what you want, but new models don't just build themselves! Apple farms out the manufacturing of their products, Tesla has to build the factories. And the superchargers don't just pop up...it all cost something and its worth something. EVs drive so much better than gas cars!

10 minutes for a full charge seems on par with gas stations. Kudos to them to them for reaching that parity. It opens the long distance travel use case, which seems to be a major sticking point for EVs. Yes, most people just commute back and forth to work. But most people also value the optionality of taking their car on a 500 mile trip over the weekend.


The one thing I'll admit is a deep ambivalence about Musk. While I believe Tesla, Hyper Loop and Boring Co are all loaded with over the top hype and unrealistic promises, I do see what is being done at SpaceX and can only be impressed.

[alancw3]

first off let me be clear before I started this thread I was not a fan of Elon Musk as I thought kind of a p.t. Barnum. but after watching all 2.35 hours of that investor day presentation I feel different. all I was trying to point out was the thought process that was put in to make Tesla choose a different path to autonomy cars i.e. computers, software and cameras versus the more popular Lidar thinking of the other big players. I personally think the other big players chose the path of least resistance for their own personal gain and news braking notoriety but that is just me. for me what is more important than autonomy cars are electric cars that can provide decent mileage range (400) and be recharged within a half an hour or so. when that happens I think electric cars become a real competitor to fossil fuel cars. for me to buy an electric car (which I would like to do). I need to be able to drive from the north east to Florida with one or two charges along the way that don't take more than half an hour. then I am on board. I hope it happens.

[fkelly]

first off let me be clear before I started this thread I was not a fan of Elon Musk as I thought kind of a p.t. Barnum. but after watching all 2.35 hours of that investor day presentation I feel different.

I am with you 100% on what you are saying and thank your for posting the link. I also took the time to watch the full video. I would not have stayed with it for 2 and a half hours if it wasn't fascinating and informative. I'm with you on the recharging issues too. Just did some googling about recharging times and they aren't as bad as I thought but still not acceptable.

I have concerns also about Tesla's financial viability mid and longer term. Don't want to plunk down 40k or more for a car and then have them go belly up. For now my 2005 Subie sits in the garage most of time, costs me almost nothing to operate and gets me where I need to go.

[CunegoFan]

Things could be worse. Musk could be trying to keep his auto company afloat by selling cocaine.

I think Musk deserves a lot of credit. He may be bit of a huckster. He have gone mad over the last couple of years. But he managed to build something that has moved the acceptance of an important technology forward. Electric cars used to be dorkmobiles bought by weirdos, much like recumbent bikes. Tesla turned them into something trendy and aspirational. I see Teslas everywhere. No matter what happens to Tesla in the future, Musk will have played an important part in changing transportation.

SpaceX ...

[bfd]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

Things could be worse. Musk could be trying to keep his auto company afloat by selling cocaine.

I think Musk deserves a lot of credit. He may be bit of a huckster. He have gone mad over the last couple of years. But he managed to build something that has moved the acceptance of an important technology forward. Electric cars used to be dorkmobiles bought by weirdos, much like recumbent bikes. Tesla turned them into something trendy and aspirational. I see Teslas everywhere. No matter what happens to Tesla in the future, Musk will have played an important part in changing transportation.

SpaceX ...

[Musk could be trying to keep his auto company afloat by selling cocaine.]

Lol, I love that reference to the late John Z. Delorean....

I agree that EVs use to be thought of as dorkmobiles bought by weirdos, look at the BMW i3. Lol!

But Seriously, Teslas are everywhere and the most advanced car on the market. But, if you want one, get it now or at least before June 30th if you want the Federal tax credit of $3750. Good Luck!

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by bfd

[Musk could be trying to keep his auto company afloat by selling cocaine.]

Lol, I love that reference to the late John Z. Delorean....

I agree that EVs use to be thought of as dorkmobiles bought by weirdos, look at the BMW i3. Lol!

But Seriously, Teslas are everywhere and the most advanced car on the market. But, if you want one, get it now or at least before June 30th if you want the Federal tax credit of $3750. Good Luck!

Im pretty convinced that Musk has a serious drug problem, especially after his announcement about the leaf blowers. Its pretty amazing that a lot of fairly smart people with a lot of money still take him seriously.

The plan here is to drain capital from places where it could do much more effective things and destroy our already woefully unfunded public transit system and create traffic nightmares all over America while making rich, bored, investors poorer in the process. It's bizarre.

Teslas aren't being bought by dorks, they're being snapped up by men in midlife crisis mode to impress the next trophy wife, saying, I have money to waste, but, I'm also a sensitive guy. I care. My profession is probably destroying the world somehow, and I live in a house surrounded by similar homes that do much more harm to the climate than a mere auto, but, I care. Let's drive to my beach house I built on a fragile dune that's five times bigger than an average home, the home I use a few weeks a year. Don't worry, I left the air conditioning on.

And, Teslas are not "everywhere". You must live in a bubble like my hood, where everyone makes enormous amounts of money and spends it faster (and are probably as asset poor as a deplorable), but you should get out more. 80% percent of Americans can't afford an expensive fashion statement like a Tesla.

[Mr. Pink]

PALO ALTO, CA—Assuring investors that the rogue vehicle would be found and reprogrammed as soon as possible, Tesla announced Thursday that the company had posted a massive first-quarter loss after a self-driving car absconded with $702 million in cash. “Financially speaking, we could have never foreseen that one of our new Model 3s would wake itself up last night, run over several security officers, and slam its way through a double-reinforced, 3.5-foot-thick bank vault,” said CEO Elon Musk, adding that he was “totally blindsided” when he arrived at Tesla headquarters this morning to find the floor covered with loose $1,000 bills and walls filled with countless car-sized holes. “Again, just because the vehicle grabbed as much cash as it could, took a joy ride through my office, and then tore off into the night at 200 mph does not leave me concerned in the slightest. If anything, once we locate the vehicle, reprogram it, and learn exactly how it became sentient, Tesla will be stronger than ever.” At press time, authorities confirmed that the self-driving car had been found, but after a tense standoff with police, the vehicle blew itself up, taking the Q1 earnings and several officers with it.

[alancw3]

a question for all if you Tesla owners? so I am driving down the road and for whatever reason I have not paid attention and run out of juice and my car has died, is there some kind of emergency battery pack that can be plugged in to give you lets say up to 5-25 miles of power so you are not stranded and have to call a tow truck? I do have to say this whole thread with the responses has really peaked my interest in an electric car. if my concerns are met I am totally in. wait and this is from a person that grew up in the muscle car era and raced fossil fuel cars.

[verticaldoug]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyQOhjm5NyA


https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#5106a7903e48

flat bed tow truck is your answer

[fkelly]

Google: "what happens when a tesla runs out of battery on the road" ... lot's of interesting stuff there. Basically you will wind up with a flat bed tow truck.

Supposedly the Tesla software knows where all the charging stations are and will give you plenty of warning to go to one if you are running low.

[gdw]

A quick search on Google shows that most of the charging stations are in urban areas, near ski towns, or along well travelled highways and roads in Colorado. Not much if any coverage in the less populated Eastern plains and south/northwestern parts of the state. If the map is complete Teslas are a poor choice for someone looking to explore the west.