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  #136  
Old 04-30-2021, 11:54 AM
XXtwindad XXtwindad is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaybee View Post
Steph. Best shooter ever. Significantly responsible for the modern game and every 14 year old practicing 30 footers in his driveway. Tremendously entertaining. Not one of the 5 best PGs.
I think you’d have many healthy debates on that one 😉
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  #137  
Old 04-30-2021, 12:08 PM
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FlashUNC FlashUNC is offline
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Point God is absolutely in the Top 5. Just to take one data point, his value of replacement player is double that of Isaiah Thomas. Double.

Isaiah was a great player, but he's no Chris Paul.
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  #138  
Old 04-30-2021, 01:19 PM
Burning Pines Burning Pines is offline
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It gets hard because some of the modern point guards aren't really point guards in the traditional sense. Paul definitely is, though.

While their games are different from each other, Dame, Steph, Kyrie, and Westbrook are kind of... not exactly point guards all the time? Dame brings the ball up the floor and distributes, but he is shoot first. Kyrie is not really much a of a playmaker, and now he's essentially the 2 for Brooklyn. Steph works off the ball all the time, like a 2 (helps to have an all-time great passing 4). Westbrook is a playmaker but not really a distributor... he doesn't run plays, he mostly just drives and kicks (and is excellent at it).

IDK, it's hard to rank greats at a single position because a lot of HOF level players are good enough that they transcend the traditional bounds of their role.

Anyways all that aside at this point I'd for sure have CP3 above Dame, Kyrie, and Westbrook. Probably not Curry, if we're calling him a point guard. This could of course change once all of these players are retired.
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  #139  
Old 04-30-2021, 01:59 PM
XXtwindad XXtwindad is offline
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Originally Posted by Burning Pines View Post
It gets hard because some of the modern point guards aren't really point guards in the traditional sense. Paul definitely is, though.

While their games are different from each other, Dame, Steph, Kyrie, and Westbrook are kind of... not exactly point guards all the time? Dame brings the ball up the floor and distributes, but he is shoot first. Kyrie is not really much a of a playmaker, and now he's essentially the 2 for Brooklyn. Steph works off the ball all the time, like a 2 (helps to have an all-time great passing 4). Westbrook is a playmaker but not really a distributor... he doesn't run plays, he mostly just drives and kicks (and is excellent at it).

IDK, it's hard to rank greats at a single position because a lot of HOF level players are good enough that they transcend the traditional bounds of their role.

Anyways all that aside at this point I'd for sure have CP3 above Dame, Kyrie, and Westbrook. Probably not Curry, if we're calling him a point guard. This could of course change once all of these players are retired.
Ahem.
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  #140  
Old Yesterday, 08:16 AM
Spaghetti Legs Spaghetti Legs is offline
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Now to take the thread in a different direction. NBA really needs to get a handle on replay reviews and flagrant foul reviews. I was watching Wizards - Bucks last night, pretty competitive, close game. Starting at about 5 minutes left, things slowed down with fouls at either end, then at about 3 minutes left, the game completely ground to a halt. Long review for a flagrant, the “did he leave room for the shooter to land?” kind, followed by an even longer review for the same thing against Westbrook on the other end, followed immediately by a challenge of the same play. I diddled around on the iPad, switched channels, came back to the game to see the back of the referee looking at the replay screen. Finally game started back, another foul, with a time out. At that point I said screw it and went to bed. Playoffs are going to be very painful when the stakes are higher.
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  #141  
Old Yesterday, 08:48 AM
Jaybee Jaybee is offline
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This replay rant is 100% on point.

Sports does not need replay, challenges, any of that. The ref calls it like he or she sees it, game goes on.

Last edited by Jaybee; Yesterday at 08:56 AM.
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  #142  
Old Yesterday, 09:47 AM
Spaghetti Legs Spaghetti Legs is offline
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This replay rant is 100% on point.

Sports does not need replay, challenges, any of that. The ref calls it like he or she sees it, game goes on.
Agreed, I'd much rather argue about blown calls that sit through that. Seems like we still argue over the reviews. Reminds me of the old saw that we could eliminate all the close calls in baseball by moving first base 1 foot farther away.
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  #143  
Old Yesterday, 12:01 PM
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FlashUNC FlashUNC is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaybee View Post
This replay rant is 100% on point.

Sports does not need replay, challenges, any of that. The ref calls it like he or she sees it, game goes on.
I'd be more sympathetic to this view if NBA refs -- who are still some of the best in the business -- didn't get calls wrong constantly. Just look at the 2 minute reports after NBA games.

It's not ideal, but I would rather have a video review to get a second look at things and potentially correct a wrong call, then let a mistake fly by that could have a material impact on the game. If these are high leverage situations in high stakes games, then the league should be using every tool at their disposal to ensure the rules are being enforced accurately and fairly.

I agree it does disrupt the flow of the game, and coaches are now bringing that into their bag of tricks on play reviews.

A compromise is maybe review all plays but "who touched it last" possession questions at full speed only, no slo mo replays from a million angles? The possession ones are usually resolved pretty quickly anyways, it's the flagrant foul calls that seem to take the longest.

On the whole though for me? Net positive for the game.
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  #144  
Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
Burning Pines Burning Pines is offline
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Yeah I'm one of the few people who prefers the coach's challenge and reviews. I'd rather they get it right, and as a nerd I appreciate that fouling late in games is a tactic. Now, if the NBA wants to speed up late games there are things they could do that don't reduce the accuracy of calls. Some ideas:

- Teams are automatically in the penalty in the last ~2 minutes.
- No timeouts/just one timeout in the last X minutes, no matter how many you have left
- Timeouts don't advance the ball past half court.
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