Cosmos vs Open Pro and pedals?

[BURCH]

Hey everybody,

Wheels:
I am putting together a new Serotta. I have to go cheaper on the wheels to be able to afford the CDA. The bike shop guy is pushing Cosmos (not laced, but straight) and my buddy that works in a bike shop and races is pushing Open Pro with Ultegra. They both give compelling arguments, but I don't know what to do. Are these two wheels equivalent or not?

Pedals:
Another conflict between my buddy and the shop owner. I have had knee surgery so the shop owner is pushing speed play because the extra float is good for bad knees. My buddy says exactly the opposite. Not sure what to do.

Thanks for any input...

[alembical]

Not much help with the wheels, but I love my Open Pros and they have been real reliable.

Regarding pedals, I was in a similar situation after a bad knee surgery and my thoughts are that the Speedplay Zeros are great for those of us with knee problems or for those of us who do not have the fit and form completely dialed in. The Zeros allow you to have free float and then as you get things figured out and your form more intune, you can dial that float in all the way to no float. I did not like the free float feeling, but have gradually got my pedals set up to the point where they now have just the right amount of float for me. I really like the float of the speedplays (no centering forces) and the ease of clip in and out (just make sure to keep the cleats clean).

Alembical

[Ken Robb]

I used Speedplay X3 while recovering from knee surgery. I loved them on the bike but they are terrible for walking around even a little bit. The float ensures that your knees will not be subjected to sideloads. I replaced them with Shimano 7800 primarily to improve safety/comfort at stops off the bike. They work fine too.
What other components are you using on the new bike? Are both sets of wheels the same price? Who will build the Ultegra/OP set?

[Bradford]

You can get plenty of arguments on both sides of these questions. I’ll leave the wheel question for others and attack the pedal question.

I’ve had bad knees since I was a kid; a combination of short hamstrings, supination, and playing hockey since I was four. It was so bad that when I was in high school, my doctor (from the sports medicine clinic at Boston Children’s Hospital), told me I was just a couple years of competitive hockey away from needing knee replacements. I’ve tried a few different pedal systems, and I only ride Speedplays. Period. End of argument. Can’t get me to switch. I have Frogs on my tandem, mountain bike, and touring bike, and X2s on my Legend.

I first tried Look fixed cleats with a fit kit fitting. I couldn’t ride 20 miles without severe knee pain. I then went to Look floating cleats, which were better, but I still experienced pain sometimes. Then I went to Frogs on my touring bike and was an instant convert. OK, not instant, it takes at least one ride before the free float stops feeling goofy, but it only took one ride for it to feel normal and the knees felt great from the start. By the way, I now regularly lube my pedals with wax lube to increase the free float as much as possible because I like the feel so much. I think frogs are a bit better for the knees than the X2s, but the X2s are plenty good.

You’ll hear from many people with different theories about this and that, don’t believe them. There is only one test, get out and ride both pedals and decide for yourself. You’ll hear people say if you are fitted properly, fixed pedals are better. Not for me. I went through a full pedal fit session and it could not have been less successful. Maybe my form isn't good enough, but who cares why? I only know what hurts and what feels good, and I don't care about anything else. You can talk all the theory you want, but with Speedplays my knees don’t hurt, with other pedals they do.

[Spicoli]

Personally I would get the OP's w/ult. reason; break a spoke fix it at any shop, toast a rim you have hubs that will last forever just rebuild, probably going to be lighter, should have a nicer ride depend on laceing. if building you can make very light with diff spoke/nipple combos.

Cosmos; easy out of box sale for shop guy? heavy, not as servicable ie: spokes, You trash em your probably not gonna rebuild em.

Make sure who ever bilds them knows what they are doing and FYI I am not a big fan of OP's but given your choice its a no brainer for me. Also if you kill em in a few years rebuild with somthing better.

Pedals; Thats tough, float can aggravate knee conditions as well. what are you currently using? sometimes it better to get your knee in the correct position and leave it. I think trial and error is your best course of action, and remember there is no holygrail of pedals. Most do the same things, just in diff. ways. Congrats on your new rig and best of luck Jeff

[flydhest]

Burch,

I will try to answer a question you asked and a question you didn't. The virtue of Open Pros is reliability and repairability. Very easy, no fuss, no muss.

That said, have you already decided on the frame? It seems to me that with the $300 price difference between the CdA and the CIII, you might want to get the CIII and whatever wheels make you happy. Quality wheels will have a much larger effect on ride performance and comfort than a fixed carbon seat stay on a steel bike.

Just my thought, it's worth precisely twice what you paid for it.

[coylifut]

I'd take the handbuilt Open Pros providing the builder offers life time trueing and spoke replacement. That's a standard arrangement where I live. You'll virtually have the same wheel, but anytime you knock em out of true, it won't cost $15 to get em straight again.

[Ken Robb]

It's not very tricky to give a little truing touch-up with my very own spoke wrench.

[Big Dan]

I would go CIII for the frame (have one) and for the wheels Open pro's with D/A hubs....
For pedals...don't know I still use Time Equipes....

I wouldn't take shortcuts on wheels...........

[BURCH]

Thank everyone. I am so glad that I decided to go with Serotta and found this site. Everybody here seems very passionate and helpful. It is also nice to be on a board where there don't seem to be any idiot posters making rude comments. I can't wait to actually get my bike and join your society.

So, i tried to reply to everyone....here goes:

Alembical,

Thanks for the input. I didn’t realize that you could dial in speedplay pedals to have no float.


Ken Rob,

What other components are you using on the new bike? Are both sets of wheels the same price? Who will build the Ultegra/OP set?

As far as components, I probably will go with Uletegra 10.
It looks like both sets of wheels are about the same. The shop owner will give me credit toward upgrading the wheels from Shimano 550.
Not sure who would build the wheels yet. My fitting is tomorrow and the shop owner did mention that he can do Mavic Open Pro…so, I assume they can do it in house.


Bradford,

Thanks for the good advice. I will make sure that I look into frogs also.

Spicolo,

I think that I am leaning toward Open Pro now. It is a good fact about easily fixing and rebuilding them.

What do you recommend over open pro?


On pedals, I am using an old pair of Shimano SPD pedals. They were like $25 and have no float.


Flydhest,

Good point on the frame….
I think that I just liked the y appeal of a little carbon in there, but you make a valid point.


Coylifut,

Thanks for the advice about life time truing. I live in Fairfield County, CT….but just moved here from Pittsburgh. Not sure what the standard practice is out here.

Big Dan,

Thanks. I am getting that is the popular census.

[christian]

Yup, I'll just join in the chorus.

Wheels: Handbuilts, for sure! D/A - Open Pro seems a popular combo.
Pedals: Only the Speedplay Zeros have adjustable float. The X and Frog series do not. That said, I have Frogs on all my bikes and they're fantastico!

I'd get the CIII, too, fwiw.

Welcome to the Tristate area. If you're in Fairfield, you might enjoy the Sound Cyclists Bloomin' Metric ride on May 22. It's the best organized ride around here, if you're into that sorta thing. Organized rides, that is.

Cheers,
- Christian

[BURCH]

Christian,

Thanks. I will look into that ride.

[davids]

I've got Cosmos on my bike, and I like 'em fine, but I'm going to be going the handbuilt route this summer. I'm looking for something lighter, at least as smooth, and prettier! A lot of folks here have recommended oddsandendos.com, and I really like the idea of a set of wheels, custom-built to my requirements, for the price of a mid-market factory wheelset.

As far as pedals, I like my SPD-SLs with 6 degrees of float. But I've heard almost nothing but things about Speedplays for tender knees. Some people don't like the slippery feel, but I'd give them a fair shot before trying anything else.

As far as the CDA vs. CIII - I'm not convinced that those carbon stays really are worth the premium. Nor do you need to spend $700 on wheels. My advice - Spend the extra money on fancy paint! May I suggest a nice "Indy" scheme?

Good luck!

[vaxn8r]

Just to throw a wrench in it...what are the prices quoted on those wheel sets?

Here's a vote for Campy Protons. I like them better than OP's and the are seemingly indestructable, offset rim, fairly light, spin well, comfortable, DA or Campy, can true them yourself (though you will never need to)...I can't say enough good things.

[Marco]

The only complaints I have heard regarding the Protons are that they can be a bear to get a tire onto. Oh, and for those who want silver bits it also poses a challenge.