Look 585

[RiderR]

Looking for some more wisdom from you all...

What made the 585 so special, and is it still worth looking out for? What's a reasonable price for a frame in good shape?

How does it compare with, say, a C40/C50? Or a KG381/481?

What was the difference between the Origin and Ultra? (Optimum is off the list).

Thanks!

[wallymann]

i put these all in the same category -- basically the pinnacle of "classic" lugged CF construction from the mid naughts, including in no particular order:

• look 585/595
• time VXS/VXRS
• cervelo R2.5
• fondriest TF1
• colnago C40/C50

[weisan]

Exceptional comfort yet lively and responsive.

[saab2000]

The Look 585 series was the successor to the 381/481. The 481 replaced the 381 but they were nearly identical. This series came in about 14 different sizes, each one slightly optimized in its geometry.

The 585 had larger tubes, carbon lugs and used a standard sized seatpost, in contrast to the 481, which used a non-standard seatpost and aluminum lugs and dropouts. The 585 has much more carbon. It was also made in fewer sizes, either five or six instead of fourteen. Of great appeal to many people is the fact that Looks of this era use normal, threaded bottom brackets. Use your Shimano or Campagnolo or Sram with confidence. They are not proprietary.

I owned a 381 and really enjoyed it for several years but then graduated to a 585, which I felt never fit quite right. I own several today and feel the same way but they're within the margin of error and work just fine.

It's not clear to me why they have a nice ride quality but they are pretty good at muting and damping a coarse road surface. They're not overly stiff but are stiff enough for most riders most of the time

Things to watch out for, in my experience, are peeling clear coat and especially mismatched headset parts. I've seen this and getting the right washers and races is nearly impossible if the previous owner attempted to "Upgrade" their headset. Don't even try. They accept a standard bearing AFAIK but the races are critical.

The Origin and Ultra are identical AFAIK except the Ultra uses a different carbon layup and possibly an extra layer in places and is advertised as being 15% stiffer. This seems plausible as I've had both but I also think it may result in less damping of the ride quality. Again, it's splitting hairs and it can't be measured. I like the Ultra for the mental game that it's stiffer and also for the aesthetic of the black carbon.

They show up on eBay with regularity and the prices are reasonable. I would pay $800 for a real NOS version with fork and headset and up to $500 for one in excellent condition. But no more than this.

I also own a Giant TCR Advanced SL and the Looks get ridden more than the nominally "higher performance" Giant.

They're not super stiff but they're not noodles either if you're not a World Tour sprinter. They're fine road bikes if they fit your body shape and riding style. They are race bikes, not gravel bikes. I can fit 25mm tires on wide rims on mine but that doesn't leave much clearance. Mostly I use 23s on wide rims.

Hopefully this sheds some light on Look 585s. I think they were last produced about a decade ago, so honestly, they're no longer remotely current. But they are as good today as when they were produced and that was pretty good. Since I'm stuck in the past I'm OK with how they ride for my current mileage and riding style.

Here are the two in my fleet I ride the most. The white one lives in Minneapolis and gets ridden when i'm in town there. The black one lives with me in Chicago and gets the most mileage of all my bikes these days. Both are photographed at beer stops, which is how I enjoy my rides these days!

Look 585 Origin (repainted)


Look 585 Ultra

[RiderR]

Great, thank you, really interesting and helpful.

Both your 585s look great. What size are they? The ones I've been looking at seem semi-compact geometry with a slight slope to the top tube, yours have a classic horizontal tt look to them. Any idea what's going on there?

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by RiderR

Great, thank you, really interesting and helpful.

Both your 585s look great. What size are they? The ones I've been looking at seem semi-compact geometry with a slight slope to the top tube, yours have a classic horizontal tt look to them. Any idea what's going on there?

Mine are the XL. These, along with the XXL, had a level top tube. All others have some slope.

Also , I have replaced the bearing top cover with a shorter one than the original as I prefer a shorter head tube.

[RiderR]

Ah, got it. Thanks again. Have just looked on geometrygeeks and I see what you mean about sizing - seems I'm right between L and XL.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by RiderR

Ah, got it. Thanks again. Have just looked on geometrygeeks and I see what you mean about sizing - seems I'm right between L and XL.

For reference I am 6’00” tall and relatively flexible. I once had an L and while it worked it never quite felt right so I went with the XL.

[RiderR]

Also - is the KG461 in the same league as 585, C40, etc? The aim is a nice riding classic (lugged carbon or possibly steel) for recovery/cafe rides, capable of a bit of spirited fun if called for.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by RiderR

Also - is the KG461 in the same league as 585, C40, etc? The aim is a nice riding classic (lugged carbon or possibly steel) for recovery/cafe rides, capable of a bit of spirited fun if called for.

I don’t know anything about other Looks. After the 585 they started to move away from their roots of lugged carbon and I lost interest.

I’d definitely be interested in a Colnago C50 or EP or EPS. They are significantly more expensive on the used market and I know little about them. But they were used extensively in the highest levels of pro racing and Colnago is a legendary brand where Look is definitely smaller and more niche.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by RiderR

Ah, got it. Thanks again. Have just looked on geometrygeeks and I see what you mean about sizing - seems I'm right between L and XL.

This is what I thought--I would typically ride a 57sq in a conventional frame, maybe a little smaller (Colnago with a 56.5), and decided on the Large.

I would not want it bigger. I'm using a slight setback Zipp post, and a 120 stem, and am currently thinking of going a little shorter on the stem. I find it hard to describe the ride--it is the first all carbon bike that I hve owned, so I have nothing that I can compare it to--but what it seems to me to offer is a very nice combination of dampening with enough road feel coming through that it does not feel dead, nice neutral turn in and responsiveness. I never thought stiffness was the one variable that trumped all others--so if other people like more stiffness, I'm not sure why. Two provisos--I am running a non-Look fork, and I am no longer the skinny guy I used to be--currently @ about 185lbs. For wheels I run Zonda G3s (narrow ones) with Vittoria Corsa 25s which are a pretty tight fit.

Regarding the headsets, you need two critical pieces--there is an inner metal 'thrust' washer that the whole mechanism rides on, and these are hard to acquire if missing (I did get some from Look USA, but it was a struggle--there is no part number)--and other headsets from different makers that used this same first-gen tech for angular bearing headsets have disappeared as well. The second thing needed (easier to come by) were microwashers for spacing the headset to prevent binding, since there are slight differences from frame to frame. The Look instructions are pretty clear on how to do this. If it gets to this level of detail, PM me and I can provide the Look install instructions.

The other minor PITA are the small plastic cable guides on the head tube--they tend to break off. I found them on Amazon UK when I looked--but last time I checked they seemed to have dried up. You do see them on eBay from time to time.

[RiderR]

Originally Posted by paredown

This is what I thought--I would typically ride a 57sq in a conventional frame, maybe a little smaller (Colnago with a 56.5), and decided on the Large.

I would not want it bigger. I'm using a slight setback Zipp post, and a 120 stem, and am currently thinking of going a little shorter on the stem.

Interesting. Do you mean a Colnago "58" (which from memory has 56.5 tt)?

[robt57]

Rather than be redundant, besides I agree with everything above aready noted.

I am 6'1/2" [used to be taller], and ride a standard 585 XL, Origin seems to what the non Ultra is referred to.

Also have no interest when Look went monocoque instead of the round tubes/lugs.

The ride/glide is the magic of these IMO. I am 200lb and while stiff enough, it is most like CV tech Bianchi frame use in the absorption of road buzz. Best in class in this dept these two in my experience regarding buzz kill ability.

To me it feels a lot like some early Ti I rode, but does not suffer from not being stiff enough as was my experience with most 90s Ti that was not an Ultimate or Vortex etc. Yet not near as stiff as those either. But does not demand you be in race mode every inch either.

It is the one bike I have I don't find needs 28s, not sure they would fit anyway. I could ride it with Tubeless 23 honestly. It is wearing my last set of 25mm Vitt Paves and I did not even bother putting latex tube in it. It feels like they are already there.

Geometry for the XL I have is road race and perfectly stable, neutral, quick responding and very very comfortable. I am between, but closer to the XL than XXL but could ride either. I would not be able to get the bars low enough easily on an XXL as much as I'd like 1CM more TT. [12mm to be exact]

A member here just got an Origin off eBay without any headset parts. Managed to get all what he needed to remedy, but was not cheap. Two things as a take away there, available and not cheap.

IMO 585s are something special, I covet and revere mine due to it feel and response for a dated frameset. I'd have grabbed a C50 but this showed up first.

Got mine striped for a repaint and sat in a box for 5-6 years and made available.

I just spray it with 303 protectant after cleaning and slapped some vinyl LOOK letter on the DT. It is about rolling on this.

They are as light as about anything as well, sans ultra lite-weight weenie stuff.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by RiderR

Looking for some more wisdom from you all...

What made the 585 so special, and is it still worth looking out for? What's a reasonable price for a frame in good shape?

How does it compare with, say, a C40/C50? Or a KG381/481?

What was the difference between the Origin and Ultra? (Optimum is off the list).

Thanks!

I would also keep an eye out for a Time VXR.

[dave thompson]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

I would also keep an eye out for a Time VXR.

I'll agree with that. I've had 2 Look 585 and a Time VXR and they are remarkably similar in feel and temperament.

It's really hard to pin down what makes these bikes so 'special', they just have qualities that tick a lot of boxes.