OT Terribly sad news - Kobe Bryant

[Vientomas]

Originally Posted by GregL

Correct on the SVFR visibility. The pilot held to the east of the Burbank/Van Nuys area until he received SVFR clearance through the class B/C airspace. He got into trouble after he left that airspace and reverted to helicopter VFR (clear of clouds) in the class G airspace. Yup, bottom line = pilot error. Very sad for everyone in that copter.

Greg

I predict litigation will ensue.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by RKW

Why fly "special VFR" through very busy complicated airspace? Why scud run among 3000-foot hills? Why not just file IFR and let ATC take you over everything, taking care of your navigation and traffic separation needs; for that short a trip they'd just give you radar vectors to destination. My guess is time constraints (filing, processing, getting clearance, and release would take a lot more time than just "get in and go and we'll deal with it in the air, which is bull****, since it's a 10 minute process); "get there-itis" (we have someplace we really need to be); and complacency (we shoot the valleys along these roads all the time).

No way for us to know if the helicopter was IFR certified (specifically thinking of pitot-static, transponder checks, etc...), and if their op specs allowed them to operate IFR. "Get there-itis" and complacency are tops of my list too, along with task saturation. Too much for one pilot, even a good one. The best decision would have been to divert to Van Nuys and have a limo take the passengers to their destination. If there was a second pilot, they could have been on the radio to the FBO making arrangements for ground transport.

I lost a friend from scud running in conditions like this. Funerals have a big impact on future aeronautical decision making. I once had to tell a US senator that he would have to take a limo home due to a minor mechanical on the airplane. The MEL said no IFR, so the senator had a two-hour drive instead of a half-hour flight. I hope he remembers me fondly.

Greg

[Dead Man]

[QUOTE=XXtwindad;2649262)Say what you will about sanctimony and snark, but I think Flash's comment took a certain amount of guts.[/QUOTE]

i can tell youre a well adjusted dude... normal healthy people dont get dudes like flash, but i speak the language and can help lend perspective:

NPDs are bold, they are never brave. bravery necessitates some kind of trepidation, some kind of chance being taken. but flash posts his ultrasanctimony and condescension knowing exactly the response he'll get, and feeds on the negative energy that ripples back at him... cuz he, in perfect narcissistic tendency, confuses peoples' contempt for envy.

getting hammered with criticism for him probably feels about as good as getting piled with praise would feel to you. cuz he's better than 'em criticizing, and their failure to grasp his righteousness is just more proof o it. ahhh, feels good.

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RIP, victims of this tragedy.

[glepore]

Originally Posted by GregL

No way for us to know if the helicopter was IFR certified (specifically thinking of pitot-static, transponder checks, etc...), and if their op specs allowed them to operate IFR. "Get there-itis" and complacency are tops of my list too, along with task saturation. Too much for one pilot, even a good one. The best decision would have been to divert to Van Nuys and have a limo take the passengers to their destination. If there was a second pilot, they could have been on the radio to the FBO making arrangements for ground transport.

I lost a friend from scud running in conditions like this. Funerals have a big impact on future aeronautical decision making. I once had to tell a US senator that he would have to take a limo home due to a minor mechanical on the airplane. The MEL said no IFR, so the senator had a two-hour drive instead of a half-hour flight. I hope he remembers me fondly.

Greg

I hope so too. Three things stand out to me about the aviation side of this-the pilot was an instructor, so competent hopefully. He also had a relationship with the paying passenger-liked him, flew him a lot, and that may have lead to overconfidence or the inability to say no. That's a lotta bird to fly solo ifr through that airspace (meaning it may explain the vfr choice), so the lack of a copilot weighs on my mind.

As far as Kobe goes, I spent a lot of time in his home town. AI was revered there, and probably had all of Kobe's flaws. But it seems they've both matured. Their backgrounds couldn't be more different. I think that talent and fame as a teenage phenom does ugly things to folks. Sometimes, they recover to be fine men, so he gets a pass in my book, although I get the contrary point of view expressed here.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Dead Man

i can tell youre a well adjusted dude... normal healthy people dont get dudes like flash, but i speak the language and can help lend perspective:

NPDs are bold, they are never brave. bravery necessitates some kind of trepidation, some kind of chance being taken. but flash posts his ultrasanctimony and condescension knowing exactly the response he'll get, and feeds on the negative energy that ripples back at him... cuz he, in perfect narcissistic tendency, confuses peoples' contempt for envy.

getting hammered with criticism for him probably feels about as good as getting piled with praise would feel to you. cuz he's better than 'em criticizing, and their failure to grasp his righteousness is just more proof o it. ahhh, feels good.

---

RIP, victims of this tragedy.

How long have I been living rent free in your head? I need to know what I can claim as a second residence on my taxes this year.

Some people...

[72gmc]

Thanks for all of the aviation talk--I don't understand most of it but I find it interesting.

It does seem to me that risk increases in situations where a person with a high amount of responsibility is also the "chosen guy" and a long-time associate of a paying customer.

[NHAero]

One thing this discussion brings up for me is about forgiveness for past transgressions. I don't know almost anything about Kobe Bryant, I haven't followed pro basketball since growing up in Boston in the early 1960s (how could you not, there, then?), but it somehow stuck in my head when i first heard of his death that there was something in his past about sexual assault.

If an ugly incident happens one time, is there an accumulation of subsequent good deeds that nudges us to let the past go?

I'm not talking about the serial offenders of the world like Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein. But many of us have regrets about things they've done that they wish they hadn't, even if they weren't illegal or violent.

BTW, I'm more upset with the story that my alma mater anonymized Epstein's $$ donations than with many transgressions by individuals. At least they appear to be dealing with it seriously.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by NHAero

One thing this discussion brings up for me is about forgiveness for past transgressions. I don't know almost anything about Kobe Bryant, I haven't followed pro basketball since growing up in Boston in the early 1960s (how could you not, there, then?), but it somehow stuck in my head when i first heard of his death that there was something in his past about sexual assault.

If an ugly incident happens one time, is there an accumulation of subsequent good deeds that nudges us to let the past go?

I'm not talking about the serial offenders of the world like Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein. But many of us have regrets about things they've done that they wish they hadn't, even if they weren't illegal or violent.

BTW, I'm more upset with the story that my alma mater anonymized Epstein's $$ donations than with many transgressions by individuals. At least they appear to be dealing with it seriously.

Worth a read, or at least a scan.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...577S8KjGEtzi2g

[NHAero]

Definitely, thanks

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

Worth a read, or at least a scan.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...577S8KjGEtzi2g

[Keith A]

For some reason, this discussion has caused some personal attacks which is clearly against the rules of conduct for the forum.

• The Golden Rule: "Don't be a jerk." Keep in mind that whatever you say here may be read by other Forum members of almost any age or gender from anywhere in the world, with different cultures, politics, religions, and beliefs. Is it something you would not be comfortable saying to any of those forum members in person? If not, then it should probably not be said here, either.

• Harassment: Respect toward fellow members is expected and required. You agree not to harass, flame, insult, taunt, or otherwise disrespect any member of this forum. Polite and intelligent disagreement is expected and inevitable in this type of forum. Personal attacks are not permitted at any time.

There has been some good discussion here, but there's also been some personal attacks. Please stop it, or we will close this thread.

[joosttx]

Personally, I think grace is something everyone deserves at their death. I don't like pissing on the newly deceased though I am sure I have I felt like many deserve it. There is plenty of time to do disparage or give an accurate account of one's life before and after. But at the moment of passing, I think everyone deserves to be shown grace.

[Keith A]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Personally, I think grace is something everyone deserves at their death. I don't like pissing on the newly deceased though I am sure I have I felt like many deserve it. There is plenty of time to do disparage or give an accurate account of one's life before and after. But at the moment of passing, I think everyone deserves to be shown grace.

Very nicely stated, thank you.

[Llewellyn]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Personally, I think grace is something everyone deserves at their death. I don't like pissing on the newly deceased though I am sure I have I felt like many deserve it. There is plenty of time to do disparage or give an accurate account of one's life before and after. But at the moment of passing, I think everyone deserves to be shown grace.

Even someone like Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden? FWIW I've got no skin in this as I only know of Kobe Bryant as the name of a baketballer I've heard once. I wouldn't know him if I fell over him in the street.

[jtbadge]

Surely there’s room for criticism between Saddam or Osama and a virtual angel. Like with Kobe, rapist.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Llewellyn

Even someone like Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden? FWIW I've got no skin in this as I only know of Kobe Bryant as the name of a baketballer I've heard once. I wouldn't know him if I fell over him in the street.

My wife and I were discussing this the other night. Are people defined by their inherent humanity, or irrevocably defined by their choices? Can good people still make bad choices? Vice versa?