kristoff no-likey tubeless @ roubaix

[R3awak3n]

so dudes on mtbs throw their bikes through insane jumps and do crazy stuff, and this dude has problems ridding tubeless on some tiny cobbles? ok...

sounds like the typical, I did not win so I will blame it on something...

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

so dudes on mtbs throw their bikes through insane jumps and do crazy stuff, and this dude has problems ridding tubeless on some tiny cobbles? ok...

sounds like the typical, I did not win so I will blame it on something...

I'm all tubeless all the time, but even a tubeless MTB can pinch flat, if by pinch flat you mean "compress the tire/tube between the rim and ground such that a cut happens". That usually means a rim dent as well, which is why the enduro-bro crowd is running things like the Huck Norris. Tubeless doesn't mean "you'll never ever flat again." It means "you'll flat a lot less than with a tube, and you'll be able to run lower pressures for better rolling resistance and traction." This works really well with larger tires, and seemingly slightly less well with tires below 30ish mm width.

Taking the reporting offered at face value, sounds like too narrow of a tire with too low of pressure, which would be a problem regardless of the tire system, tubulars included. I agree that it's weird and a bit unseemly to throw the equipment under the bus, especially when a sponsor provided it for free. Everyone flats in Paris Roubaix. Just part of the race.

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

so dudes on mtbs throw their bikes through insane jumps and do crazy stuff, and this dude has problems ridding tubeless on some tiny cobbles? ok...

sounds like the typical, I did not win so I will blame it on something...

They use totally different equipment to do insane jumps. I do not understand how your comment is relevant.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

They use totally different equipment to do insane jumps. I do not understand how your comment is relevant.

yes they are different equipment but they are also on the extreme of things. I am not sure how tubeless was the problem. Maybe his combo tire/rim/pressure, yada yada...

I do agree that he should have just gone with the tried and true but blame the tech is silly.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

yes they are different equipment but they are also on the extreme of things. I am not sure how tubeless was the problem. Maybe his combo tire/rim/pressure, yada yada...

I do agree that he should have just gone with the tried and true but blame the tech is silly.

Tried and true... he won Gent-Wevelgem, and the bunch sprint at Flanders with this set up.

I think the issue is that a good set up for the Belgian cobbles is (perhaps) not the right solution for Roubaix. Even if it performed well during recon on the French cobbles.

[bicycletricycle]

If the tech failed you than pointing that out is okay I think. If you are the one that chose that technology than you have to take some of that blame yourself. These riders are probably pressured into using "new" technology by their sponsors, a lot of factors probably went into making the decision.

I think it is generally bad form for athletes to speak badly of their sponsors or their equipment. They are paying you for good PR. If you are not satisfied you should just start trying to find a way to move on.

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

yes they are different equipment but they are also on the extreme of things. I am not sure how tubeless was the problem. Maybe his combo tire/rim/pressure, yada yada...

I do agree that he should have just gone with the tried and true but blame the tech is silly.

[spoonrobot]

Tubeless isn't pinch flat proof, it's just less likely. One can still pinch different parts of the tire together against the rim hard enough to cause two punctures in the tire - especially running relatively narrow tires on relatively wide rims.

I pinch flatted tubeless tires on all my bikes (MTB, road, gravel) the first year I switched because I just followed what I saw on MTBR and dropped the pressure by a given value without accounting for sag.

Seems baffling why someone would choose tubeless if they were already set up for tubular tires. I'd never switch in that scenario.

[Red Tornado]

Besides a pinch flat or a burp, could the process of the tire resealing have something to do with it? If it didn't seal quickly a lot of air could be lost, possibly enough to make it un-rideable. Road tires have less volume than dirt tires, so maybe sealed but pressure was just too low afterwards?

[the bottle ride]

Many of the World Cup XC racers super glue their tires to the rim to keep them from burping- and the downhill guys I think they are still on burly tubes.

He should have been on a bigger tire- period.
I get wanting a skinny/fast tire- but durable is critical

[mt2u77]

Just curious, is there a rule limiting the maximum tire size for these cobbled events? Given the horrific crashes and equipment failures that are common in Paris Roubaix, I wonder if teams are unnecessarily pushing the boundary on safety in the name of tradition/untested assumptions about the fastest tire configuration. Even if a larger tire is slightly slower, there is some element of risk reduction that must be weighed. (i.e. Is a slightly slower bike actually "faster" if it keeps your team together, healthy, prevents burning matches to recover from mechanicals, and gives you a shot at the end?)

[Lionel]

Originally Posted by mt2u77

Just curious, is there a rule limiting the maximum tire size for these cobbled events? Given the horrific crashes and equipment failures that are common in Paris Roubaix, I wonder if teams are unnecessarily pushing the boundary on safety in the name of tradition/untested assumptions about the fastest tire configuration. Even if a larger tire is slightly slower, there is some element of risk reduction that must be weighed. (i.e. Is a slightly slower bike actually "faster" if it keeps your team together, healthy, prevents burning matches to recover from mechanicals, and gives you a shot at the end?)

It's a compromise that has been figured out a long time ago. 27 to 30 is the best. There is 210km of road and 55km of Pave.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Lionel

It's a compromise that has been figured out a long time ago. 27 to 30 is the best. There is 210km of road and 55km of Pave.

You spelled it wrong. The correct spelling is Pavaix.

[Calnago]

I already posted this somewhere else, but this is a better place for it...

Originally Posted by someoneelse

I don't agree tubeless had much to do with his puncture (if it was a puncture...) but I am thurougly confused by the 25mm if that's truely what he ran.

Originally Posted by “Calnago”

With a clincher, be it tubed or tubeless, you still have two hard narrow vertical walls on each side with the bead of the tire forced (by air pressure) against it. And these two narrow edged walls are the only thing supporting that tire. When it gets hit hard enough that the tire gets jammed on top of those wall edges it’s very hard on the tire. In the case of a tubed clincher, you will pinch flat right away. In the case of a tubeless, there is no tube but it’s still a pretty traumatic event on the tire’s sidewall as it creases and gets essentially vice gripped and jackhammered between, well... a rock and a hard place. Versus how a tubular sits across a rim bed, evenly supported across the whole width, not just two edge walls, without any abrupt sidewalls extending vertically up, acting as anvils for the rocks to crush the tire against when they hit. Whether or not this was the cause of Kristoff’s specific punctures who knows, but it’s not hard to see how a tubular setup in a scenario like this is going to be gentler on the tire.
Now, at some point, if the tires get big enough and volume great enough, take a mountain bike for example, the scenario above will just never, or very rarely, happen. But we’re not all pretending mountain bikes are road bikes, at least not yet. Or are we? Hope not.
Sorry for the bit off-topic, but it seems relevant to the discussion at hand. And I was kind of rooting for Kristoff at the beginning.

[edit]: I do think he should have gone for at least a 28mm tire however, I guess he just doesn’t like the feel of the larger tires. Still, Paris Roubaix is not your typical gravel grinder fare.

In conclusion, one word: Tubular!

[JStonebarger]

By that logic the A23 above should pinch flat less -- the contact point with the tire and tube is actually flatter and less pointy than that on the Major Tom.
In reality, though, neither need be pointy because a pinch flat isn't a cut it's a tear caused by compression.

[benb]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

so dudes on mtbs throw their bikes through insane jumps and do crazy stuff, and this dude has problems ridding tubeless on some tiny cobbles? ok...

sounds like the typical, I did not win so I will blame it on something...

Just think how much better MTBs would ride with Tubulars. Tubulars are magic!

What I don't quite get is just like Disc Brakes how this keeps getting screwed up.

They should have figured out how to run tubeless road at pressures lower than a tubular can handle a long time ago.

It's like the reason they keep using the tubulars is because it's the only setup the mechanics understand and the riders demand something that doesn't make sense if they're on anything but tubulars?