Builder's Spotlight The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 12-06-2017, 01:52 PM
jh_on_the_cape jh_on_the_cape is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,734
For "fun"????

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckred View Post
For fun, google some of the you tube videos of Lindsey Vonn and Mikela Schiffren working out. We're talking some serious toughness, agility and strength...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by avalonracing
I don't think I could ever have the words "Soft Machine" so close to my junk.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-06-2017, 02:04 PM
72gmc 72gmc is offline
what's a little rust?
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the home of the Huskies
Posts: 2,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by veloduffer View Post
Shiffrin may want to think about speed events and career longevity (due to injuries).
As a fan of skiing and both of these athletes, I've been hoping that Mikaela would not feel pulled into the speed events. I want to believe she can follow the Ingemar Stenmark career path and not be held together by pins when she retires.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:14 PM
cadence90's Avatar
cadence90 cadence90 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by veloduffer View Post
I hope Vonn breaks the record, too. Speaking of hard workouts, I can’t imagine what Vonn’s rehab has been after some of the terrible injuries that she’s endured and yet climbed back to one of the top skiers.

I read that Vonn wants to compete against the men in downhill. Supposedly, her training run times have been competitive. She is strong, enough that she uses men’s ski models to race on.

Shiffrin may want to think about speed events and career longevity (due to injuries).
Very true. I have enormous respect for Vonn's tenacity. She has been through a lot, and not just on skis.

I would love to see Vonn against the men; I would be very curious to see how close she was able to stay to them.
I guess that past W/M downhill/SG courses, even if on the same mountain, have always had different enough starts, lengths, turns, etc. that no decent comparison has ever been possible? But Vonn must feel that she could do it.

Agree completely on Shiffrin and the speed events...win or not the other day, her body just does not seem built to withstand that abuse over years and years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72gmc View Post
As a fan of skiing and both of these athletes, I've been hoping that Mikaela would not feel pulled into the speed events. I want to believe she can follow the Ingemar Stenmark career path and not be held together by pins when she retires.
Exactly.

Vonn has 3" and 20# on Shiffrin, and I think that that is enough of a difference that Shiffrin's ability to hold up against consistent speed-events abuse for a decade would be a legitimate concern. She can do it all now, still being so young, but in 3 or so years, ....
.
.
__________________
Colnago
Kish
Moots
Pegoretti
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:34 PM
tuscanyswe tuscanyswe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,127
a follow up on ingemar´s state after his career..

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72gmc View Post
As a fan of skiing and both of these athletes, I've been hoping that Mikaela would not feel pulled into the speed events. I want to believe she can follow the Ingemar Stenmark career path and not be held together by pins when she retires.


Ingemar participated in the swedish tv show champion of champions (guess you have something similar in US) in 2011 at 55 years of age competing vs various different and younger athletes from sweden.

Since he is ingemar he ofcourse won the show that season.

Not all events were physical ofc but damn that man was and is as fit as ever, amazing really.

Here he is jumping at 55, amazing shape regardless of age!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZbZXprCUXo

Three years later he win the swedish "lets dance" season of 2015 and makes a similar jump, guess he is close to 60 here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkv2I6yQItA

Last edited by tuscanyswe; 12-06-2017 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:16 PM
cadence90's Avatar
cadence90 cadence90 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,887
^
Apparently those videos are not viewable in USA, but I can imagine his current physical condition...definitely NOT the current Tomas Brolin, eh?



EDIT: Whoa...here is Stenmark meeting Lindsey Vonn (in Feb 2017, tuscanyswe?)...he really does look in incredible shape considering he's now 61. Impressive.

Interesting and good interview, questions, etc. actually.

Stenmark is so incredibly smart. It used to be written that he could actually feel the difference between ONE and TWO layers of masking tape between his boot and his ski, in order to adjust his cant. I completely believe that; he was such an incredible technician, and maybe had the best feel ever.

She is definitely the one who most deserves to break his record if it falls.
.
.
__________________
Colnago
Kish
Moots
Pegoretti

Last edited by cadence90; 12-06-2017 at 09:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:02 AM
tuscanyswe tuscanyswe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadence90 View Post
^
Apparently those videos are not viewable in USA, but I can imagine his current physical condition...definitely NOT the current Tomas Brolin, eh?



EDIT: Whoa...here is Stenmark meeting Lindsey Vonn (in Feb 2017, tuscanyswe?)...he really does look in incredible shape considering he's now 61. Impressive.

Interesting and good interview, questions, etc. actually.

Stenmark is so incredibly smart. It used to be written that he could actually feel the difference between ONE and TWO layers of masking tape between his boot and his ski, in order to adjust his cant. I completely believe that; he was such an incredible technician, and maybe had the best feel ever.

She is definitely the one who most deserves to break his record if it falls.
.
.
Id rather his record stand tbh
He wins everything he enters and yes he is incredibly calculating on top of his massive technique and skill.

Pitty you can't see those in US but here is a lousy cellphone vid of the same. At age 60 more or less.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/354971...in/dateposted/
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:12 AM
BikeNY BikeNY is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 236
BTW, Vonn has petitioned FIS to let her race against the men, and they are actually considering it now after many years of just saying no. They will not make a decision until after the Olympics, and it wouldn't happen until the '18-'19 season. I doubt they will agree to it, but if they do, it would probably be something like an exhibition event, and probably at Lake Louise.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:32 AM
glepore glepore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 262
I'm in awe of Mikaela's dedication and ability, but am I alone in getting a little creepy about how much "molding" went on by her tiger mom?
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-07-2017, 03:50 PM
cadence90's Avatar
cadence90 cadence90 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuscanyswe View Post
Id rather his record stand tbh
He wins everything he enters and yes he is incredibly calculating on top of his massive technique and skill.

Pitty you can't see those in US but here is a lousy cellphone vid of the same. At age 60 more or less.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/354971...in/dateposted/
Which is why I wrote: "She is definitely the one who most deserves to break his record if it falls."

No go on that flickr link either...need super-special Swedish permission or something.

Stenmark was by far my most favorite skier ever; I loved everything he did; and dreamt of emulating it...




...and then Tomba came along.
.
.
__________________
Colnago
Kish
Moots
Pegoretti
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:23 PM
BikeNY BikeNY is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadence90 View Post

...and then Tomba came along.
.
.
He was certainly fun to watch, but I don't think he had the same work ethic as Shiffrin and Stenmark
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:56 PM
tuscanyswe tuscanyswe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,127
La bomba.

I still remember watching him stop after a miss, track back a step or 2 get back in the line, finish and win.

Was pretty fast when he was on it!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:41 PM
cadence90's Avatar
cadence90 cadence90 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeNY View Post
He was certainly fun to watch, but I don't think he had the same work ethic as Shiffrin and Stenmark
Ha ha ha! Yes, not even close.
Tomba even far out-Bode'd Bode before Bode was Bode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuscanyswe View Post
La bomba.

I still remember watching him stop after a miss, track back a step or 2 get back in the line, finish and win.

Was pretty fast when he was on it!
He was incredible, 180° from Stenmark, just tons of raw power. It was fun to see. And I think Stenmark understood and even respected what Tomba was doing technically. The world had changed, and Killy et cie were now definitely gone and forgotten.

Plus, for an Italian, at the time, we were all amazed at...,"What? Tomba is from Bologna???" That was extremely rare, to have an ITA skier not from the Alps. Razzoli came later, also from the same area, but he really was a one-hit wonder.... Tomba was a pure genius, and really changed a lot of things.


.
.
__________________
Colnago
Kish
Moots
Pegoretti
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-16-2017, 06:56 PM
cadence90's Avatar
cadence90 cadence90 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuscanyswe View Post
Id rather his record stand tbh
And today, recovered from her recent back injury, Vonn is now one step closer with her victory in the Val d'Isere Super-G.

The current top 15 in World Cup race victories is an interesting mix of Men and Ladies, and specialties.
Stenmark's and Vonn's gaps over the rest are impressive.
Red = retired; Green = active.

1) Ingemar Stenmark (M, ret., SWE): 86
2) Lindsey Vonn (L, active, USA): 78
3) Annemarie Moser-Pröll (L, ret., AUT): 62
4) Vreni Schneider (L, ret., SUI): 55
5) Hermann Maier (M, ret., AUT): 54
6) Alberto Tomba (M, ret., ITA): 50
7) Marcel Hirscher (M, active, AUT): 48
8) Renate Götschl (L, ret., AUT): 46
8) Marc Girardelli (M, ret., LUX): 46
9) Anja Pärson (L, ret., SWE): 42
10) Pirmin Zurbriggen (M, ret., SUI): 40
11) Marlies Schild (L, ret., AUT): 37
12) Benjamin Raich (M, ret., AUT): 36
12) Katja Seizinger (L, ret., GER): 36
13) Mikaela Shiffrin (L, active, USA): 35
14) Aksel Lund Svindal (M, active, SWE): 34
14) Bode Miller (M, ret., USA): 33
14) Hanni Wenzel (L, ret., LIE): 33
15) Erika Hess (L, ret., SUI): 31

Shiffrin, currently in 13th overall with 35 victories to date, could enter the Top 10 already this year, at only 22! It's pretty amazing that she has already passed Bode Miller.

Looking at this list, I think Shiffrin could definitely become #1 ever. After this Olympic year Vonn and Svindal (no threat), having both started WC in 2001, could retire, leaving only Hirscher and Shiffrin active. Hirscher is definitely a threat, having started in 2007 (already 7th with 47 and a Slalom specialist), so with maybe 8 more good years in him. Shiffrin only started in 2012, so has maybe 12-13 good years left. And it doesn't look now as if there are any major, younger threats to Shiffrin and Hirscher.
.
.
__________________
Colnago
Kish
Moots
Pegoretti

Last edited by cadence90; 12-20-2017 at 08:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-16-2017, 09:34 PM
verticaldoug verticaldoug is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,338
Shiffrin probably has another 2 or 3 years before her competitors figure out what she is doing different in the slalom and copy it. Or one of the European federations pays big money to get the info from the coaches. Her yearly win totals will slow. If she stays healthy, she can get the record, but she will not blow by it.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12-17-2017, 02:07 AM
cadence90's Avatar
cadence90 cadence90 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by verticaldoug View Post
Shiffrin probably has another 2 or 3 years before her competitors figure out what she is doing different in the slalom and copy it. Or one of the European federations pays big money to get the info from the coaches. Her yearly win totals will slow. If she stays healthy, she can get the record, but she will not blow by it.
...."blow by", yes, most likely not...I do not think that anyone will ever smash 86 under the current calendar/points system. The last 10 to surpass 86 will be brutal for anyone. And Shiffrin is nowhere near that...yet.

But, she can also gain a bit in the speed events, as she improves there, to somewhat offset her competitors, no? Plus, weren't Stenmark's technical Slalom/GS "secrets" also generally known? Clearly his talent, grit, etc., definitely were not, so he kept winning and winning and winning. I think Shiffrin is special in that way as well. Also, Shiffrin has one more discipline, Super-G, to target if/when she chooses. I think Super-G was only run in the least few years of Stenmark's career.

In any case, you might be very right:
of the current contenders to Stenmark's crown (Vonn, Hirscher, Shiffrin) only Shiffrin is above his WC wins/season at ~5.5 to his ~5.4 (Vonn and then Hirscher are both lower, currently). But Stenmark's 5.4 is over 16 seasons while Shiffrin's 5.5 to date is over only 6 seasons. One wouldn't expect her average to climb in the next 10 seasons, and instead decrease, and so perhaps tuscanyswe's desire to see Stenmark's record stand will in fact be fulfilled...ceck in with him in 2027......
In my gut I see Shiffrin (barring major injuries) barely breaking Stenmark's record, Vonn coming very close before injuries stop her, and Hirscher not getting there either.

I think, in the next 10 years and until the next super-super-nova:
Shiffrin: 86+
Stenmark: 86
Vonn: 86-
Hirscher: 69-
All others: 62-



EDIT:
I had no idea Hirscher reads Paceline Forum. But he must have read that right above and gotten really angry:
in today's Alta Badia GS he led Kristoffersen by only 17/100 after the first run, and than smashed him in the 2nd to win by 1"70.
(Ligety 5th, 2"23 back.)
.
.
__________________
Colnago
Kish
Moots
Pegoretti

Last edited by cadence90; 12-17-2017 at 10:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.