Intermittent fasting as part of health & training regime?

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Dr Mirkin on subject. Sports Doc and nutritionist.

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/lowc...rformance.html

Elite race walkers....
I would vote yes to IF when not in competition or riding season. I do find that I can convince my body to not be hungry after practice- genetics aside, whatever floats your bike.

[Ralph]

Dr Mirkin on "Eat to Compete".

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/eat-to-compete.html

[Ralph]

BTW.....IMHO if all we're doing is riding 125-150 miles per week, lots of diets can work for us. I personally like the IF idea to help with weight control, and avoid some of the risks, at my age, of strokes, cardiac events, diabetes, etc. The original post was about training to compete I believe.

[weisan]

Just commenting in general...

I think we have a tendency to look for quick fixes, instant results, magic solutions, drastic measures....

What I have learned is, what really works in a sustainable and healthy fashion requires first off a mindset change, followed by implementing incremental changes, observing self discipline and a follow through with daily consistency.

Take my recent weight loss for instance. It wasn't a drastic change. I didn't jump out of bed one day, look at myself in the mirror and declare that I was too fat. It was something I thought about on and off for some time and ponder over. Looking at my previous lifestyle, I determined that it was possible to reduce the amount of daily intake and still maintain and keep up with my level of activity. So, the level of activity remained the same while the intake amount was reduced incrementally. Over three months, I have lost 20 pounds and it's still going. The most important part of what I learned in this process is the mindset change. Because mentally inside, the light came on and I have flipped the "switch", this whole exercise is not a one-off thing or a flash in the pan, I am confident I will be able to keep this up for the long term. I have seen far too many pals who have lost weight and then gained them back and put on even more. I think perhaps they have not completely made up in their mind why they embark on this journey of weight loss in the first place. Usually when that happens, it's easy to get thrown off course by external factors.

At the risk of over-simplification, almost every permanent change follows this pattern:

Old self --> Motivations --> Mindset change --> Physical change --> New self
And the cycle repeats itself when the New becomes the Old again.

[glepore]

I practice intermittent fasting but not fasted training. If I'm doing a big ride I will eat 300-500 cal of carbs an hour or so before and try to consume 200cal of carbs an hour during the ride. If just doing a workout, then just carbs before. I try to train later in the day if "just training" and on those days not eat before noon. Works for me. My weight has been steady throughout my 50's practicing this.

Fasted training might well be unhealthy, as its catabolic. I hear people talk about being "fat adapted" and I think this is bunk-your body burns what it burns. What you can do is moderate insulin response by not bombing yourself with simple sugars - this works.

[54ny77]

Thanks for all the replies.

My head explodes trying to figure the IF thing out, timing things (16/8, and so on), yadda yadda.

The IF thing was just interesting concept, wasn't really aware of it. The initial goal here is weight loss, yes, and then once a comfortable weight is realized, some sort of moderately structured training to get faster. I know what I have to do to get to both ends, it's just a matter of commitment.

And that all assumes, of course, life doesn't get in the way of one process or the other....

Cycling is a cruel mistress!

[General69]

I have been doing IF for that last 2 months with a 10 lb weight reduction so far. I'm a 6 ft tall male and went from 200 lb to 190 lb. I have a normal dinner at 5 pm and don't eat till noon the next day. I also work out before my noon meal. You are essentially cutting your calories by 1/3 but just cutting out breakfast.

[chiasticon]

Originally Posted by weisan

I think we have a tendency to look for quick fixes, instant results, magic solutions, drastic measures....

my understand of IF is that the reason it works is because it's very straightforward and totally doable in the long term. the main idea is that you're cutting your calorie intake in a much easier way than counting calories for everything, always. and that you don't have to have "cheat days" or anything like that to reward yourself and stay sane. why it works - whether because your stomach shrinks, hunger chemical balance changes or whatever - is apparently still debated among experts. but from what I've read, most people have success with it.

there's many forms of it though. some you eat 1/4 of your recommended caloric intake every other day, and whatever you want the next. others you have a full 36 hours of fasting. and still others your really only eat one meal a day. each apparently works better for certain lifestyles and people. the one most people here seem to be referring to is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of feeding, which is most conducive to people who wish to exercise during/near the feeding portion. but I believe you tailor your caloric intake during that period to what your activity level is for the day.

personally, I think this would be most conducive during the winter months, when you mainly are looking for zone two base miles and trying to keep the weight off while your activity level is lower. I can't see doing it during the summer, if you do a lot of big miles, long days, and difficult rides/racing.

[stev0]

Seems like a lot of folks chiming in about Intermittent Fasting (IF)/Time Restricted Feeding (TRF) in combination with caloric restriction.

Over the years, I've practiced a form of TRF (on and off) where I consume 100% of my usual calories from 12-8PM (16 hours fasting, 8 hours feeding "16/8"). Ideally, I have a short workout right before my meal period starts. Doing it M-F only makes it more manageable, and when I go on challenging rides I don't stick to a strict schedule, but usually those fall on the weekends anyway.

It can be a very straightforward way of restricting calories (i.e. one less meal), but I think it has its own merits. I generally feel better (mood) and feel physically healthier when I do so.

Adding a link to a study on the effects of 16/8 on "resistance-trained males", published in a peer reviewed journal. It has useful citations (with links) to studies on effects of IF and TRF on athletic performance (e.g. how Ramadan affects athlete performance).

[GonaSovereign]

Originally Posted by weisan

Old self --> Motivations --> Mindset change --> Physical change --> New self
And the cycle repeats itself when the New becomes the Old again.

This is on the money.

[11.4]

There's some interesting research recently published that investigates how mitochondria react to intermittent fasting. The results were quite striking and have been affirmed by other researchers: Intermittent fasting does provoke significantly higher metabolic efficiency of mitochondria, reduces deterioration in mitochondria with age, and modifies the regulation of metabolic pathways through the mitochondria which use lipids. The studies were on elite athletes in aerobic sports, and were ultimately assessing measured biochemical changes relative to actual sports performance improvement. None of the athletes were on ketogenic diets per se.

Since mitochondria are the drivers of aerobic metabolism in the cell and their number and efficiency are key drivers of cellular aging and damage repair, these studies are quite interesting. Now they don't actually translate, at least not in the research described here, from biochemical changes in the mitochondria to actual sports performance or longevity. But the results were quite telling. The experiments have been duplicated with different patterns of fasting, but the evidence seems to suggest that 12-hour fasts twice a week prior to 2 hours of exercising are enough to bring about the results described. That's not serious fasting and doesn't impair the quality of a 2-hour workout. There was no indication that the fasting impaired training or sports improvement for any of the subjects.

So it's probably worth trying this out and seeing what your personal experiences are. It's not so extreme a regimen as to impair training or create metabolic problems for you in other ways, and it doesn't require ketogenic diets or anything more extreme than basic healthy nutrition and exercise.

[Louis]

Anyone have a link to a decent, non-hardcore, basic approach to IF, with a good description of how to implement in your current life as a regular exerciser?

I'm willing to try if it isn't too complicated.

[Louis]

So, some Googling tells me that there are at least two ways to do this:

1) One 24 hr fast per week, and

2) Daily 16 / 8 fasting, where you only eat in the 8 hr window and fast during the 16 other hours.

Anyone out there care to comment further on how these two compare?

TIA

[chiasticon]

Originally Posted by Louis

So, some Googling tells me that there are at least two ways to do this

here's a basic overview of five different ones, including the two you mentioned, along with what type of people/lifestyles they might work well for: http://dailyburn.com/life/health/int...sting-methods/

[velofinds]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

My head explodes trying to figure the IF thing out, timing things (16/8, and so on), yadda yadda.

It's not that complicated. In brief, do all your eating during a narrow window (e.g., 8 hours) and abstain during the rest. Timing is less important, though it's preferable if you can build in a buffer of, say, 2-3 hours between your last food intake and when you go to sleep.

If you can fast for 16 hours, great; if not, that's okay, too -- you'll still see benefits. Personally, I intermittent fast for about 14 hours, which in practical terms amounts to wrapping up dinner by 7 and not having anything to eat until 9am the next day (though unsweetened black coffee or tea in the morning is perfectly fine). Do that (or similar) as many times during the week as you can.

Edit: IF and fasted riding shouldn't be conflated -- though related, these are two separate things. For starters, IF can be incorporated by athletes and non-athletes alike.