Retul Futbed custom footbeds---- Experiences?

[Strain]

I'm getting a bike fit this week at Endurance Werx in Harlem with John Beardsley. They use the Retul system and I saw they do custom footbeds as well.
I have been looking to get custom insoles for my shoes, I have very high arches and my current insoles leave me wanting.
Anyone had the Retul custom footbeds?

[sheepdog84]

I still have the same retul footbeds from 4 years ago at my first ever bike fit, and they still work quite well. In my case, i have to use them with 2, 1 degree cleat wedges, otherwise they aren’t as comfortable. They’re super stiff and i think that contributes to the longevity, but fit near perfectly still.

I’ve even tried some G8 2620’s but have gravitated back toward the retul footbeds because of their lower stack height. They also work better with my Bont shoes.

They are just customized specialized body geometry footbeds, which might benefit you, especially if you have exceptionally high arches.

Not every part of that fit was great, but it introduced me to bike fitting, and getting my position dialed between bikes.

nowadays i run about 15-20mm lower saddle height than they “recommend”, but have no substantial issues. Just FYI that’s a common output from retul / motion capture based bike fits.

Best of luck!

[catchourbreath]

I got them, as with anything fit related the usefulness is highly dependent on the competence of the person doing it. They can be remolded a few times so that helps. I'm not super into the way the retul mold station works, just be very careful with feeling out the insoles before you leave, make sure it's exactly what you want.

[Alan]

I had some of these for many years and they are good as custom molded to your feet. I ended up getting custom orthotics from my podiatrist as I had pan issues in the ball of my foot under big toe and that is completely fixed. They are worth a try and are better than the other insoles except maybe G8 which are just as pricey I think and they wear out faster.

The custom orthotics are much better made and will last for as long as I want to use them and they can be recovered but you need a podiatrist who understands cycling to design them. Luckily my podiatrist did a great job. He is a friend and cyclist.

Alan

[bikser]

Specialized I believe bought Sidas which had the footbeds, and now they're part of the Retul fit setup. I have had numerous custom footbeds over the years, some costing several times what the Retul's did. Retul's are as good or better. It's a simple process, so definitely depends on how good and knowledgeable the fitter is. Also, listen to your body during the process. If you feel like there's a pressure point have them smooth that out, and vice versa if it feels like you need a little more support in a spot have them build it up. I am fortunate to have known Todd the creator of Retul since he had his first studio (long before Specialized bought them). I can go up to Boulder to get fits and footbeds from him when I need them.

[Alistair]

Are the Retul footbeds just based on a simple mold/scan, or can they adjust the mold/scan results to achieve a specific goal? Or does that still require getting orthotics from a podiatrist?

[kgreene10]

I tried Sidas custom years ago when it was a new product. For me, it produced a much shallower arch than I needed. The way the process created the mold (at least back then) seemed like it would always yield less arch.

[benb]

The problem is even going to a Podiatrist is there is no science behind any of it in terms of how they design it for your foot. My most recent pair was just a computer algorithm, no different than a bike fit computer algorithm based on predictions. It had no data on what my knees or hips were doing or anything. It literally only had an input of a laser scan of my feet when they weren't bearing weight.

All their science is poorly controlled studies based on whether people though they were more comfortable. It's more an art form than anything. Some of it they will define some measurement of how much your ankle moves with and without it and declare success if they change your ankle to moving differently. But they can't explain why some people have movements they deem bad but they have no pain and no problem with function or performance. They can't explain why a video of elite runners or other athletes shows a bunch of them with movements they deem faulty.

In terms of how high they should make it for your particular arch, how high a metatarsal button should be, what should a correction be for just walking for squatting versus pedaling a bike? None of that has ever been studied and everyone's feet are so different they haven't even started to really understand it.

Pretty much every pair of custom orthotics I had (many, many pairs over almost 30 years) seemed to put my foot in a position that was OK when walking, removed all ability for my foot to absorb shock when running, and overcorrected my foot massively once I was in a squat/lunch/pedaling position. They were all super uncomfortable for standing in one place as well compared to no orthotic.

So basically if you try it on and it's comfortable than it's good. Everything else is gravy and you don't want to spend more money on any claims beyond it's comfortable.

About 6 months ago I decided I was done with it. Working with a PT now on strengthening muscles that got weak from wearing orthotics.

[Strain]

Appreciate everyone's input and comparisons with options I've been considering besides Retul.
Top of my list was the G8 inserts and second getting custom footbeds made at a podiatrist.
Some of the pros and cons have been addressed for both here and I'm leaning more towards getting the Retul now.
Also I got the "fit first, buy later" option since fit this is for a custom frame first and felt like I needed to be re-fit, so can always bring it up at the follow up/fit validation once the new frame is built and the full build done.
Thank you all!!!

[benb]

If you get an actual orthotic that holds your foot up in a position it's not naturally going to be in then it will absolutely change your bike fit.

I wouldn't get a custom frame before starting using them.

Basically all the bike fits I've had I was using them. I think they may have raised my saddle height by 2-3cm through the combination of stack height + causing my ankle to be at a higher point in it's range of motion.

I kind of need to decide if I'm really going to stop using them that I need to go get my bike fit re-evaluated by someone good, and perhaps ask for knee angle assessments with and without the orthotic.

[catchourbreath]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Are the Retul footbeds just based on a simple mold/scan, or can they adjust the mold/scan results to achieve a specific goal? Or does that still require getting orthotics from a podiatrist?

They're essentially a reusable mold that inflates and you pop your feet on then kinda mold around your feet, then you heat the insole and viola. The fitter would have to have some good working knowledge of the process to get a specific goal, but you certainly can heat up segments and adjust as needed.

[GParkes]

Originally Posted by benb

The problem is even going to a Podiatrist is there is no science behind any of it in terms of how they design it for your foot. My most recent pair was just a computer algorithm, no different than a bike fit computer algorithm based on predictions. It had no data on what my knees or hips were doing or anything. It literally only had an input of a laser scan of my feet when they weren't bearing weight.

All their science is poorly controlled studies based on whether people though they were more comfortable. It's more an art form than anything. Some of it they will define some measurement of how much your ankle moves with and without it and declare success if they change your ankle to moving differently. But they can't explain why some people have movements they deem bad but they have no pain and no problem with function or performance. They can't explain why a video of elite runners or other athletes shows a bunch of them with movements they deem faulty.

In terms of how high they should make it for your particular arch, how high a metatarsal button should be, what should a correction be for just walking for squatting versus pedaling a bike? None of that has ever been studied and everyone's feet are so different they haven't even started to really understand it.

Pretty much every pair of custom orthotics I had (many, many pairs over almost 30 years) seemed to put my foot in a position that was OK when walking, removed all ability for my foot to absorb shock when running, and overcorrected my foot massively once I was in a squat/lunch/pedaling position. They were all super uncomfortable for standing in one place as well compared to no orthotic.

So basically if you try it on and it's comfortable than it's good. Everything else is gravy and you don't want to spend more money on any claims beyond it's comfortable.

About 6 months ago I decided I was done with it. Working with a PT now on strengthening muscles that got weak from wearing orthotics.

I find this mystifying. I have what one DPT consider the worst feet he'd seen. Almost a full size different, very narrow, low volume, and almost no subcutaneous fat on my heels (bone, then skin, then pain). Two pairs of custom orthotics, both refurbished since initial molds made 8 years ago, and my feet can't live without them. After the DPT had them made, I subsequently saw a podiatrist for the initial pain which hadn't subsided yet, and he said excellent work done on the orthotics.

It seems to me that using a computer algorithm is a poor way to construct rather than taking impressions/molds. Sorry yours haven't worked out.

[benb]

Originally Posted by GParkes

I find this mystifying. I have what one DPT consider the worst feet he'd seen. Almost a full size different, very narrow, low volume, and almost no subcutaneous fat on my heels (bone, then skin, then pain). Two pairs of custom orthotics, both refurbished since initial molds made 8 years ago, and my feet can't live without them. After the DPT had them made, I subsequently saw a podiatrist for the initial pain which hadn't subsided yet, and he said excellent work done on the orthotics.

It seems to me that using a computer algorithm is a poor way to construct rather than taking impressions/molds. Sorry yours haven't worked out.

Depends on what your goal and activity level is. They can "work" for me if the idea is no pain. If the idea is functioning the way I can/could without orthotics they don't work. I can't run anywhere near as well with them as I could before them, I can't stay on my feet as long in a day with them, I actually walk slower with them as well.

I couldn't even tell you how many DPTs I've seen over the past 30 years. Usually what happened is I moved, needed new orthotics, and seeing the same person wasn't an option. I have never had two DPTs recommend the same type or orthotics and they have never looked similar. Usually they make them in a completely different way because of whatever manufacturer they signed up with.

Another big one that bugs me is most of them I eventually made an appointment when the orthotics were seriously, seriously worn, and they would try to say they should still work fine. They'd be worn so much they would be tilting my heel significantly more than when they were made. Usually I wear the outside edge of the heel significantly away, almost to the point they'd break.

Cycling they honestly seem less problematic, but also really, really hard to get right without them causing hot foot or something else.

[quattro]

I’ll add my two cents to what others experiences have been with orthotics.
I have foot issues and need orthotics in all of my shoes. I have very good custom orthotics, I can’t walk without them. I spoke to a specialized store representative that makes the Retul orthotics at that store. I told him of my foot issues and he didn’t think the Retul would address them. I’ve also tried custom made Sidas orthotics, they didn’t work for me. As I recall the Retul run about $200, a custom pair can run anywhere from $300 up. So, it really depends on how severe you foot issues are and how much correction you need. Good custom made orthotics can be priceless.Good luck.

[benb]

Yah around here they are $400-600 per pair.

In the past I have been told they are still OK in an attempt to alleviate the cost issues when I look at the orthotics and it's extremely hard to believe they are still working correctly.

For cycling only they really can last a long time. For walking and running I destroy the outside edge of the heel on them, which causes them to start correcting the heel more and more. I've gone into at least one of the places and they're trying to tell me they are still working the same when I've worn 1/4" off the outside of the heel and that's seriously changed the angle they prop my ankle up at.

The current pair I have has an issue which is relevant for cycling, if they get wet they do not dry well at all. Make sure if you get some with a cover the cover is designed to handle getting wet. Mine will end up being too hard to dry and they get smelly. Not good if you get used to wearing them till you're depending on them to get through the day. This has usually been a cycling specific issue because for other activities it's easier to keep my feet from getting soaked. None of my bike shoes are waterproof, if I get stuck in a huge downpour or have to ride through big puddles the shoes get totally soaked. If I'm at the point I have to wring my socks out when I get home from a ride I have to put a big effort into getting the orthotics dry.

It all depends on what you have going on and why they say you need them. The evidence of whether they work or not and/or whether you can strengthen/stretch/correct to avoid being dependent on them.

For what I have, there is a lack of evidence that they are the best option or do anything really, and there is a lot of debate about whether to use them or whether to work on it with PT. My issue was in the 90s there was no debate and they offered no PT and I became dependent on them. But the last year or so I have put in an effort to get out of them, and it is working but it's been a long process. As is though I can run better now without them than I could with them at any point in the last 20 years, but I still need to be very careful on concrete. For cycling getting out of them the adjustment seemed much, much faster. For snowboarding I am way way better off without them already. My back is super super happy to not be using them on the mountain.