Alternatives for [left] bar end shifter

[cgolvin]

I realize this is in Angry's sweet spot, but figured I'd ask the whole crew.

I have older Campy 11 bar end shifters on my parts bin gravel bike. The left has always required quite a bit of force to move to the big ring despite my many attempts to improve it (cable routes along top and seat tubes with a disc on the ST, Athena 11 FD). The other day the shifter failed, a piece of the outer ratchet broke right off. While I research replacement parts options (not promising), I am wondering about using a different shifter as a temporary solution (I don't care about aesthetics on this bike).

Since it's the FD, I figure that another brand of shifter would work at least as well, even friction rather than indexed.

So, what alternatives would you recommend? As I hope it's an interim solution, all I want is something that will work reliably and won't cost very much. If you have something spare that fits the bill, let me know here or via PM.

Thanks

[mhespenheide]

Well, the hot ticket from the late 80's would be to run a downtube shifter for the front brake...

But yes, the front shifting should be brand-agnostic. The vintage guys prefer SunTour for their retrofriction shifters, if you can hunt one down.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Well, the hot ticket from the late 80's would be to run a downtube shifter for the front brake...

But yes, the front shifting should be brand-agnostic. The vintage guys prefer SunTour for their retrofriction shifters, if you can hunt one down.

The Sun Tour Power Ratchet system is wonderful and Rivendell got the specs from them and had a new batch run off which they marketed under their own "Silver" brand. Heck, you might like to try a set of left and right Silvers.

[mhespenheide]

One more idea: at least for Shimano, the bar-end mounts are separate from the shifting bits. So if you have a downtube shifter that you like, you might well be able to mount it on the handlebar end.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Well, the hot ticket from the late 80's would be to run a downtube shifter for the front brake...

No comprende.

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

The Sun Tour Power Ratchet system is wonderful and Rivendell got the specs from them and had a new batch run off which they marketed under their own "Silver" brand. Heck, you might like to try a set of left and right Silvers.

Thanks, that looks like an excellent solution to my problem (but not a set, their site says that 10 speed is the max). One question: do you know whether these require Shimano or Campy shift cable heads? I assume Shimano, because I have Campy and, you know, Murphy.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

No comprende.

D'oh! Downtube shifter for the front derailleur, bar-end shifter for the rear derailleur -- that is, deliberately mismatched.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

D'oh! Downtube shifter for the front derailleur, bar-end shifter for the rear derailleur -- that is, deliberately mismatched.

Gotcha -- but no braze-on for a downtube shifter on this bike, and even if I used a clamp I'd have to figure out a way to route the cable back up to the toptube, so reverse-orient the shifter?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Since it's the FD, I figure that another brand of shifter would work at least as well, even friction rather than indexed.

Correct. Use whatever bar end you wish. Friction FD shifter is ideal, IMO. It really allows you to feel the best level of throw.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

No comprende.



Thanks, that looks like an excellent solution to my problem (but not a set, their site says that 10 speed is the max). One question: do you know whether these require Shimano or Campy shift cable heads? I assume Shimano, because I have Campy and, you know, Murphy.

My Sun Tour shifters all used Shimano cables and I'll bet the Silver branded ones do too. If you are ordering a Silver shifter Rivendell can probably add cables to your order too.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

One question: do you know whether these require Shimano or Campy shift cable heads? I assume Shimano, because I have Campy and, you know, Murphy.

Cable head: Having filed down many a cable head to fit my Campy shifters, I'm pretty sure that a Campy (skinnier) cable end will work in a Shimano/etc shifter.

Reduce Friction: Next, having had many a Campy drivetrains, what I found works really, really well for reducing cable friction is to use the skinnier shifter cables, the kind with the sides shaved down (shops can get them from QBP in bulk, I think it's a house brand cable for QBP), the 1.1 mm cable (NOT the 1.2mm).

Next, use a segmented cable housing (I use Nokon). You can route them around very hard turns, they don't compress, and if you use the teflon type lining for the length of the cable, it's extremely slippery.

Use White Lightning wax lubricant for the cables. This worked so well for cables/housing that a friend that owns a high end classic car restoration garage uses it for all the throttle and parking brake cables.

A couple times I assembled a drivetrain and literally thought I forgot to thread the cable through because there was no resistance in the shifter.

When I first used Nokons I had to turn my bars past 90 deg to put it in my car. I blew out a pair of Campy shifter housings pretty quickly, like within a month or two. Then I blew out another set. Nokons, no issues. Bike in car:


Picture of Nokons under the bars of an older bike of mine:


Another option, if you ride on the hoods a lot, is the Command Shifter from Suntour. I think that's what it's called. Let me Google...



The Command Shifters really only work well from the hoods. Sort of from the tops. Not really from the drops. I tried them but seeing as the mission critical aspect was using them from the drops, I eventually passed on them.

Also, having cut my teeth on Suntour bar ends, a good tip is to remove the rubber/plastic/vinyl covering on the shifter. Really improves feel. There's a nice finger tip shaped scallop in the aluminum that's covered by the vinyl.

I also cut down the bars because I never used the very end of the drops and I'd rather have the shifter in my hand, not 2 inches behind it. Therefore I could shift without moving my hand, a huge ergonomic benefit.

The picture below is one of my last bars from my bar end shifter days. Suntour ratchet shifter with the covering cut off.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

Another option, if you ride on the hoods a lot, is the Command Shifter from Suntour. I think that's what it's called. Let me Google...



The Command Shifters really only work well from the hoods. Sort of from the tops. Not really from the drops. I tried them but seeing as the mission critical aspect was using them from the drops, I eventually passed on them.

Those were the 1st generation Command shifters. The 2nd generation were shorter and better angled contoured, and worked really well on the hoods. But you could only upshift (to smaller sprockets) from the drops. They were indexed for 7spd & 8spd, and also had a retrofriction mode for friction shifting.




If you're looking for other alternatives, there's also the Gevenalle Retroshift, which allow you to mount shifters to the front of the brake levers. These use standard shift mounts, so you can mount downtube, bar-end or thumb shifters.

[oliver1850]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Those were the 1st generation Command shifters. The 2nd generation were shorter and better angled contoured, and worked really well on the hoods. But you could only upshift (to smaller sprockets) from the drops. They were indexed for 7spd & 8spd, and also had a retrofriction mode for friction shifting.




If you're looking for other alternatives, there's also the Gevenalle Retroshift, which allow you to mount shifters to the front of the brake levers. These use standard shift mounts, so you can mount downtube, bar-end or thumb shifters.

I've never owned a pair of Command shifters but always wanted to try them. Couldn't you hook your thumb over the top of the lever and upshift?

[thwart]

As someone with a similar arrangement (a pulley on the ST to use a bottom pull FD on a CX type frame with shift cables routed along the top tube) I assume you’ve pulled and cleaned the pulley, and then lubed it well. If not, that could explain your front shifting resistance. That pulley gets lots of schmutz from the rear tire.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by oliver1850

I've never owned a pair of Command shifters but always wanted to try them. Couldn't you hook your thumb over the top of the lever and upshift?

That's exactly how you do it. The shape of the 2nd generation lever was better suited to hooking with your thumb. (unfortunately you can't do this from the drops.)

[cgolvin]

I think I'm on the path toward a solution since a very kind Paceliner has offered up a surplus Shimano bar end shifter. Paceline is outstanding (and a shoutout to the mods, just because).

Originally Posted by thwart

As someone with a similar arrangement (a pulley on the ST to use a bottom pull FD on a CX type frame with shift cables routed along the top tube) I assume you’ve pulled and cleaned the pulley, and then lubed it well. If not, that could explain your front shifting resistance. That pulley gets lots of schmutz from the rear tire.

I will clean the pulley up while the bike's down for the count (or, alternatively, masquerading as a 1x). However, I don't think the pulley is the problem. I'm using some cable housing internal on the portion from the cable adjuster to the pulley, and have tried both wrapping the housing sleeve and the naked cable around the pulley, no difference. Another wrinkle is that the cable & housing rests in the gap of the FD clamp and there's no way to route around it.

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

Cable head: Having filed down many a cable head to fit my Campy shifters, I'm pretty sure that a Campy (skinnier) cable end will work in a Shimano/etc shifter.

Reduce Friction: <snip>

Thanks for all that. The Nokon stuff is a bit pricey for this build but I'll investigate other pieces of your advice. Since I suspect the routing is more of the problem, I'd likely spend that money on replacing the FD with a top-pull one since I suspect that would work a lot better.

Originally Posted by Mark McM

If you're looking for other alternatives, there's also the Gevenalle Retroshift, which allow you to mount shifters to the front of the brake levers. These use standard shift mounts, so you can mount downtube, bar-end or thumb shifters.

I've always been curious about those, but again that's a more expensive solution as it means replacing the lever as well.