How were decals made back in the day?

[cinema]

Every reproduction decal I've seen cannot compare. I assume the digital source file is the culprit and back in the day 30-60 years ago they were using more hand-made methods to produce higher end brand decals.

[unterhausen]

I think they were screen printed, but I'm not sure. They definitely seemed to be made in layers.

[cinema]

that was my thought as well. they are rich with color and no hard pixelation or surgically perfect straight lines. look almost painted on the best original ones.

[BobbyJones]

Most repros are just cleaned up scans and digitally printed... so it’s all in the process.

Even digitally rebuilt (not “cleaned up”) files will result in a much better result using the same process but it’s expensive. You’re talking the difference between 30-60 minutes for clean up by someone on the lower edge of the skill curve vs hours for a rebuild on the higher end of the skill curve.

Realistically, you can have repro decals done “the right way” but at the cost of a Joe Bell paint job.

For most, the lower end is good enough and won’t be noticeable. Much like most goods today.

To answer the original question: well done hard copy artwork, each color separated out onto its own “layer”. Then either a screen or plate made for each color through a photo process depending on production method- Screen print or litho.

Most modern pro grade digital processes can have a higher “resolution” than film based stuff of old, so the quality possibilities are there.

[cinema]

makes sense why the old ones look so much better then. i received some decals in the mail from what seemed like a well regarded company, and they pale in comparison. would never use them, would rather leave damaged originals on.

[SteveM]

Are there any sellers of reproduction decals that do compare favorably with original, vintage? I ask because I have a '69 Raleigh Professional that has badly worn decals.

[BobbyJones]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Are there any sellers of reproduction decals that do compare favorably with original, vintage? I ask because I have a '69 Raleigh Professional that has badly worn decals.

I don't have a "vintage" bike around. Would it be possible for you (or anyone else) to take, clear, close up pictures of the existing decals?

I quick search found some sellers of vintage decals and I'm really curious how they technically compare as far as artwork quality goes. What I'm seeing online doesn't impress me, but there is the possibility that the originals aren't that technically great either. These were -just- bicycles after all!

[cinema]

Originally Posted by BobbyJones

I don't have a "vintage" bike around. Would it be possible for you (or anyone else) to take, clear, close up pictures of the existing decals?

I quick search found some sellers of vintage decals and I'm really curious how they technically compare as far as artwork quality goes. What I'm seeing online doesn't impress me, but there is the possibility that the originals aren't that technically great either. These were -just- bicycles after all!

i imagine if they aren’t screen printed they will lack the original quality. i was pretty stunned that i went to a vendor who was regarded well here and online and the decal sent to me was probably 10% of original quality with pixelation that is extremely obvious. i assume many of these outfits are just cyclists who like old bikes and take a crack at it with a printer and photoshop

i recommend setting up alerts for NOS decals.

[Velocipede]

It depends on what you mean by "back in the day". If you are talking about 30 years ago, they were screened on 1, 2 or 3mil clear tape. It depended on the brand. 60 years ago they were water slides. Velocals offers both thankfully.

[unterhausen]

how was a water slide made?

[BobbyJones]

Originally Posted by cinema

i imagine if they aren’t screen printed they will lack the original quality.

It doesn't have much to do with the actual method as much as how it's executed. You can have an equally crappy screen printed decal as much as anything else.

Originally Posted by unterhausen

how was a water slide made?

Printed on a base substrate with a dissolvable coating and a carrier sheet on top. If you're asking screen printed or litho "back in the day", it's been a long time since class but i'm leaning towards screen printed with lacquer inks.

[cinema]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

It depends on what you mean by "back in the day". If you are talking about 30 years ago, they were screened on 1, 2 or 3mil clear tape. It depended on the brand. 60 years ago they were water slides. Velocals offers both thankfully.

not a fan of their art for what i needed but interesting to know they do screen and water slide.

[colker]

Originally Posted by cinema

Every reproduction decal I've seen cannot compare. I assume the digital source file is the culprit and back in the day 30-60 years ago they were using more hand-made methods to produce higher end brand decals.

Whatever they used on my Pinarello was so magical it evaporated completely leaving only a slight mark behind. Nice trick.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by cinema

not a fan of their art for what i needed but interesting to know they do screen and water slide.

Originally Posted by colker

Whatever they used on my Pinarello was so magical it evaporated completely leaving only a slight mark behind. Nice trick.

I'm replying to both cause it's the same. Pinarello of old, like the 80's and before were water slides. VeloCals sells water slides for these. I bought a kit for a 88 Montello I was redoing for someone. Almost 100% exact. Slight difference, mainly the overall length of it. But font and everything was perfect. Height was fine. But they didn't have the length long enough or it would've gone over the originals perfectly.

Water slides are nice but you need to dry test fit them to make sure. If I had known they were short, I would've cut them up to individual letters and fit them. Learned the hard way. Ooops.

Water slides will just crack, flake off and disappear as mentioned. It's what was happening to his Montello and on tons of Moots Bikes. Those are water slides. At least they used to be. If you ever see them cracking like a dry desert floor, there's your answer as to what they are.

[colker]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

I'm replying to both cause it's the same. Pinarello of old, like the 80's and before were water slides. VeloCals sells water slides for these. I bought a kit for a 88 Montello I was redoing for someone. Almost 100% exact. Slight difference, mainly the overall length of it. But font and everything was perfect. Height was fine. But they didn't have the length long enough or it would've gone over the originals perfectly.

Water slides are nice but you need to dry test fit them to make sure. If I had known they were short, I would've cut them up to individual letters and fit them. Learned the hard way. Ooops.

Water slides will just crack, flake off and disappear as mentioned. It's what was happening to his Montello and on tons of Moots Bikes. Those are water slides. At least they used to be. If you ever see them cracking like a dry desert floor, there's your answer as to what they are.

I wonder why Pinarello didn´t clearcoat over the decals. I am under the impression their paint and finish were purposed to last a few seasons while the frames are way more robust.