Tour de France 2020 TdF2020 - SPOILERS

[harlond]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

I think JV used the strategy that LA's teams and Ineos used. The difference is that those teams used those other climbers to increase the speed more on the last climbs and then the leader would try to ride away from just a few riders. JV did not get aggressive on the final climbs and I think it was because Roglic was not strong enough.

Jeff

OK, but I'm still not sold. Roglic was not the strongest guy in the race, but JV still got him to the time trial with a minute lead. And Roglic has a better history of time-trialing than Pogacar. (But yes, Pogacar is so young history may not mean much.). Assuming, as you do, that Roglic is not the strongest guy, what is JV supposed to do different? Still seems to me JV's strategy got them right where they needed to be.

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

Maybe we are talking about different riders? I just went back and watched clips of Peter Sagan wins. He doesn't win against the big sprinters on flat stages. He excels in winning uphill sprints (admittedly against top sprinters) and sprints where the best sprinters are gone because of hills. ONLY the sprinters can beat him. It would be dumb to allow Peter in your break.
What he does get is hype. Announcers just falling over themselves to invent new superlative terms to describe Sagan besting riders who can't compete with the Caleb Ewan type sprinters.

I agree with what you are saying. I never said he would beat sprinters on flat stages. He is not going to beat the top sprinters but this year he didn’t have the form to pick up decent points in the sprints. He did not look good at intermediate sprints either. He did not look like Peter Sagan.

Jeff

[ridethecliche]

Sprinters have a shelf life.

That said, it's rare for a sprinter to be at the point end of the peloton on the harder stages and hes there often.

Even if he were the fastest for a bit, he may not be anymore. His form riding around looked fine. He was hanging on when everyone else was getting dropped. The others are just faster sprinters.

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by harlond

OK, but I'm still not sold. Roglic was not the strongest guy in the race, but JV still got him to the time trial with a minute lead. And Roglic has a better history of time-trialing than Pogacar. (But yes, Pogacar is so young history may not mean much.). Assuming, as you do, that Roglic is not the strongest guy, what is JV supposed to do different? Still seems to me JV's strategy got them right where they needed to be.

Pogacar won the Slovenian TT championship over Roglic 3 months.

As you said Pogacar is young and has little history.

Stage 20 TTs are different than other TTs.

As I said before JV could have used their multiple riders on the final climbs to up the pace and attack - if Roglic had the legs.

[harlond]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

Pogacar won the Slovenian TT championship over Roglic 3 months.

As you said Pogacar is young and has little history.

Stage 20 TTs are different than other TTs.

As I said before JV could have used their multiple riders on the final climbs to up the pace and attack - if Roglic had the legs.

But if Roglic doesn't have the legs--which the Sepp Kuss incident certainly suggests--then that would expose Roglic, not protect him. So I'm back to my question: what was stupid about JV's strategy?

[nickl]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Hot Take: Ineos lost despite their bikes, UAE won despite theirs.

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Thank you for the in-depth technical analysis.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by nickl

Thank you for the in-depth technical analysis.

Trust me, the pleasure is all on this side of the table......

[Fivethumbs]

Sagan lost two or three times to Bennett and Bennett's lead out man. He did not look the same to me.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

Pogacar won the Slovenian TT championship over Roglic 3 months.

As you said Pogacar is young and has little history.

Stage 20 TTs are different than other TTs.

As I said before JV could have used their multiple riders on the final climbs to up the pace and attack - if Roglic had the legs.

So who, then, was the strongest JV rider? If Roglic didn't have the legs to drop the challengers a'la Sky/Froome, why were they riding for him? Is Kuss too young or doesn't have grand tour GC pedigree? Dumo took to long to hit top form? And Kruijswiek left off TDF squad. If Roglic was indeed their best option, all things considered, it was only a matter of time.

[notsew]

Originally Posted by Fivethumbs

Sagan lost two or three times to Bennett and Bennett's lead out man. He did not look the same to me.

Sagan clearly didn't have the watts for the final push like he used to. I wouldn't say he's washed, but he's certainly not in the form he usually is for the TdF.

[nickl]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Trust me, the pleasure is all on this side of the table......

Asking for trust without verifiable data is a non starter.

[Patb095]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Weird how people are screeching that the 21 year old who wins the Tour is likely on the sauce, but the 40 year old who's still in the upper echelon of a Grand Tour -- and already been popped for doping once in his career -- everyone's silent about.

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Weird how people are screeching that the 21 year old who wins the Tour is likely on the sauce, but the 40 year old who's still in the upper echelon of a Grand Tour -- and already been popped for doping once in his career -- everyone's silent about.

Yeah , I might be a little naive but this kid sound really sincere, I don’t see him doping the hard way. I’d have more doubts about Wout Van Aert blowing everybody out in the mountain including himself pulling the train and the next day wining a sprint against the best sprinter of the pro tour .

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by nickl

Asking for trust without verifiable data is a non starter.

Well, Pinarello has 11 TdF wins, more than any other maker.
Prior to this year, Colnago had zero, but now has 1.

... if any of this matters.

[Bici-Sonora]

Originally Posted by tctyres

Well, Pinarello has 11 TdF wins, more than any other maker.
Prior to this year, Colnago had zero, but now has 1.

... if any of this matters.

Both Peugeot and Gitane have 9 wins each even without having bikes in the TDF for over 30 years. Maybe Roglic needed a Pug?


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[tctyres]

Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora

Both Peugeot and Gitane have 9 wins each even without having bikes in the TDF for over 30 years. Maybe Roglic needed a Pug?


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Maybe JV should have replaced Pogacar's road bike for the switch with an old PX-10! Climb on that, Tadej!

Then it would have been a double dog switcheroo!!