OT: Cars, fuel economy, and such

[fa63]

Tradable credits (as part of a cap and trade approach) are different than a straight carbon tax.

The ultimate goal of CAFE standards is to reduce the externality (emissions) associated with vehicles. A tax can achieve the same goal by putting a price on what cars emit, assuming the tax is high enough to actually reduce overconsumption.

[Ti Designs]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

There may be some truth in this hyperbole if the reading level of Americans is as bad as Wikipedia claims it to be.

I didn't say "they're idiots", I said "we're idiots", myself included. Dare I ask how many people here drive vehicles that weigh over 5000 pounds and have at least 5 seats, as personal transportation??? It's not a question of reading level, it's a question of perspective. If nobody ever sees themselves as part of the problem, the problem never gets solved. On the other hand, you can always blame the problem on all those other people...

[fuzzalow]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

I didn't say "they're idiots", I said "we're idiots", myself included. Dare I ask how many people here drive vehicles that weigh over 5000 pounds and have at least 5 seats, as personal transportation??? It's not a question of reading level, it's a question of perspective. If nobody ever sees themselves as part of the problem, the problem never gets solved. On the other hand, you can always blame the problem on all those other people...

Yes, I understood what you were saying. And yes, I was extending the gist of what you were saying to include all of us, including me, as a nation, to the topic I was writing about. We were talking on slightly different problems and trains of thought however the core throughout both our discussions remains of one concerning perspectives.

I am not blaming others, I accept my responsibility and contribution to larger problems and I ask others to accept the same and together we work towards a solution. "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

I have never owned or desired a SUV in my lifetime. I'd dare say that I have never owned a vehicle in excess of 4,000 pounds in GW (Gross vehicle weight). I have however participated in motorsports which some might view as wasteful of gasoline - to them I'd say there's good in all things taken in moderation.

[cmg]

sorry off topic. "gov't waste not nearly as much as most think." ever see a govt. construction project? oh yea, we sink lots of dollars.

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by estilley

I took a really great graduate economics course on global climate change policy last year.

I remember the "goal" set for price per ton of carbon was about $30. Ideally this cost would be internalized and the extra revenue from the tax used to go towards abatement management. The other big take away, was that without a large scientific breakthrough we're kind of toast. I really like the idea of taxing carbon and then exclusively using the revenue for R&D and efficiency improvements. It all starts with EVERYONE buying in. And that is definitely the hardest part as we live short, finite lives.

The large scientific "breakthrough" is already here. It's called solar. It will kill the treehuggers to admit it--so they won't--but the businesses that spread propaganda about global warming because they did not want to finance speculation about an uncertain future will ultimately be proved right. Declining carbon emissions won't happen from the idiocy of freezing standards of living at 1990 levels but by technology making solar cheaper than digging fuel of of the ground.

[Mikej]

Actually, the real scientific breakthrough is population control...

[Fatty]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Fuel tax increases are long overdue and seem to be the only realistic solution to improving our crumbling infrastructure. I live in what has to be the worst road condition place in the us. What scares me is the incompetence displayed in road maintenance and repair. There are only about three construction firms in our illustrious state that win the bids for these big contracts, and none of them know how to properly build or repair a road, imo.

Watching them work is a comedy of errors, and the finished product is hardly a thing of pride.

My whole life I've always marveled at how nice the roads are in other areas.

If TUL means Tulsa as in Tulsa OK I feel your pain. Once I made the mistake of getting on the Will Rogers turnpike and sitting in grid lock while some crew fixed pot holes.
I live in northern Illinois and I thought we had the worst roads in the nation. I kind of sure we have the highest gasoline taxes and toll roads to add insult to injury.

[flydhest]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

I didn't say "they're idiots", I said "we're idiots", myself included. Dare I ask how many people here drive vehicles that weigh over 5000 pounds and have at least 5 seats, as personal transportation??? It's not a question of reading level, it's a question of perspective. If nobody ever sees themselves as part of the problem, the problem never gets solved. On the other hand, you can always blame the problem on all those other people...

I will bite.

I don't know the weight of my car, but it has 5 seats, with the option to use two more. We put about 3000 miles on a car per year and I would estimate that less than 10 percent of the time/miles that it is driven that it has fewer than three people in it. Am I still an idiot? I do think of it as personal transportation.

I put 3K miles per year on the car and 5K to 10k miles per year on bicycles. I also think of the bikes as personal transportation, and one of them allows me to carry both kids to the market every Sunday.