considering a new frame

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by jghall

For what it's worth, most of the builders I've spoken to, or worked with, have suggested that s/s is not worth the extra expense. Not that it's not nice, more of a return on the dollar. Somewhat similar to what they have said on straight gauge ti vs. butted ti.

Yeah - I get that. Just wondering if that was what Mr. Strong was referring to.

[StanleySteamer]

Test ride a Marinoni, if that does'nt tickle your fancy, shop around for a used Moots frame.

[ntb1001]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

And that's my point. Just wondering if Carl S was commenting on steel vs SS from a savings/value perspective, or from performance. I have a SS and an EL-OS myself, and there is a world of difference between them, but I think that's because of a lot of other factors and not corrosion resistance.

He said that steel is very good and $1000 cheaper than SS. He suggested Ti over SS if I was willing to spend the premium.

How do you compare you're SS to ELOS?? I just sold my ELOS.

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[uber]

I had spoken to Carl a few years back. The impression he gave me was he liked steel and Ti, but saw little advantage of stainless over Ti in terms of cost or weight. If I were building with Carl, I would go with his recommendation. I agree also that the value is in a used Ti frame. Used Eriksen's I have seen and sold on this board are amazing values.
My personal preference in steel are for Pegs and Speedvagens. Campy EPS might look better on an SV, and Pegs require a healthy wait, but I don't remember many people saying how they are unhappy with their Pegoretti's. I think Sacha White has been doing an amazing job with his fit tours and attention to fit as well as frame construction. Sacha is also offering Enve 1.0 forks and carbon seat tubes to get performance and weight closer to carbon frames. Have a great time choosing your builder and material.

[booglebug]

Its all in the build, my Dunde rides different than my DeSalvo steel. My Eriksen rides different than my Seven Ti as by design. The builder can make the frame ride any way you want. Love the steel but Ti is my first choice.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by ntb1001

He said that steel is very good and $1000 cheaper than SS. He suggested Ti over SS if I was willing to spend the premium.

How do you compare you're SS to ELOS?? I just sold my ELOS.

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I can't. Geometries are different, tubing thickness, steering characteristics all quite different. They are both very responsive and comfortable for the long haul, but beyond that, there is enough difference in the 'non-materials' characteristics to make comparison between the materials difficult.

If I were in your shoes, if you like the feel of steel, then I don't know that I'd spend the extra dough for SS. Steel vs. Ti seems like a whole nuther matter that only you can decide. GL.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

first off, if i was an electronic shifting guy, there is no way i would buy a big dollar campy or shimano electronic group right now.

the people have spoken and sram's wireless group is pretty well loved. campy and shimano will follow shortly with wireless groups.

unless you have no concern for cost, need something very specific, or are a bizarre sized human, buying new titanium is a tough sell IMO. the cost for a new Ti frame from a reputable builder is very very high compared to what gently used titanium is selling for. just something to consider.

also - marinoni makes an awesome frame for a fantastic value.

I don't have an inside line at either company but..I wouldn't bet the farm on this. Di2, in it's various iterations, wildly outsells etap. Particularly on carbon frames. VERY few production frames(zero) are not plumbed for both electronic and mechanical, made just for etap. etap is a boon for bike assemblers, not really for riders.

IMHO, of course.

[zank]

I would agree. I think the likelihood of Shimano making any major changes (wired to wireless) between Dura Ace generations is very very low. So in my estimation, wired Di2 is here for at least another four years.

[93legendti]

Hard to go wrong with any of the regular builders on this forum. Zank, Dave Kirk, Tom Kellogg and Carl Strong are all top notch and will not disappoint. I have had bikes from all of them, except Zank, but he should be in any discussion about a custom frame.

My Kirk is 10 years old and feels brand new and is still exciting to ride every time. I sold my Strong amd Kellogg, but wouldn't hesitate to get another.

I had a Ti Strong and would either get another or a custom blend.

[TunaAndBikes]

I think that with the prices at Marinoni right now there's really no going wrong with a Piuma or Piuma Supreme for a straightforward road bike.

Get one and maybe get it painted with an extra fancy paint job from VeloColour if you really want to splurge!

[sparky33]

I've heard from a few excellent builders that stainless is just a huge pain to work with...unreliable supply, difficult to cut, difficult to join. I believe Firefly is phasing out stainless, but maybe you could ask super nicely for it.

fwiw, My stainless (Reynolds tubes) Kirk is really nice.
Snappy, smooth, light-ish, exotic, pretty, and I don't have to worry about any paint.

I like titanium bikes for the same reasons, and there are way more titanium builders out there.

[sales guy]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

I'm wondering what the rationale was for this comment about modern steel vs stainless - performance issue or just the builder's preference?

For us, it's an issue with durability and expense. We do an XCr frame as well as an HSS/Spirit frame. The cost is higher on the stainless and it's a pain to weld. For a lugged frame, you wouldn't have the welding issues. You can burn thru it super fast and it's tough.

The durability thing, the tubing is stupid thin. And it can dent relatively easily if you aren't careful. On the same note tho, I had RBA do a review of our Elite HSS and they dented the downtube of it. You wouldn't know it if you didn't look hard or have it pointed out. I had that bike at NAHBS.

Stainless frames are stiffer than modern steel frames. At least that's what we've found. I had a customer who was looking at ti or ss and he called a bunch of US builders and they all said the same thing, go with a ti frame.

[OtayBW]

^ Interesting insight, especially SS being stiffer. Thanks for the input!

[sales guy]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

^ Interesting insight, especially SS being stiffer. Thanks for the input!

many of our guys are similar size and have tried the different models. We are about 50 miles SE of London so good riding. They find the Stainless stiffer as well. The founder of our company rides an HSS/Spirit tubeset. Loves it more than the titanium or stainless we do.

Like I said, I had one guy in Wisconsin talk to 6 different builders in the US who do steel, titanium AND stainless. Every single one said go with titanium first, steel second and stainless third. I know the list and have spoken to them also. They don't like working with it. The expense, the difficulty working with WELDED, not lugged like Kirk, welded is really tough. Add into it stiffer, they prefer regular steel or titanium over Stainless.

[Waldo]

It's less about the frame and more about the parts. A vintage frame with modern components often makes a great riding bike. I have a 1978 Kvale and an early 1980s Baylis equipped with 11-speed Campy. Both are wonderful riding bikes and are in my regular rotation, together with an eTap equipped Rob English, a titanium Spectrum, and a carbon LandShark. Yes, the Baylis and the Kvale are heavier, but they climb, shift, and handle as well as anything else out there. If you didn't have modern shifting on your Pinarello, it may have been the parts that made you look for something else.