H Plus Son - Archetype Hard Ano

[robt57]

Originally Posted by rccardr

Had some, went back to rims with machined brake tracks.
Life is too short to ride rims that look...skeezy.

Aren't they machined but anodised after?

[rccardr]

Duplicate post.

[rccardr]

Originally Posted by wallymann

Funny...to riders of a certain vintage, a knackered worn anodized brake track looks... OG.

Perhaps. But hard to get more OG than a 70 year old hard core collector.
Just mentioning...

Not to say they aren’t great rims, just personally prefer the polished ones or ones with MBT’s

[cmbicycles]

I've had a 32h set laced to Record hubs on my primary bike for a few years. I am 200# and built with Sapim Laser on the front and NDS, and Race on drive spokes, and use 25mm GP4k. The wheels have never been more than .5mm out of true, so nothing more than a slight nudge once or twice with a spoke key in the last few years to appease my OCD. Brake surface is just starting to fade a little, but it looks proper for a bike that gets ridden, IMO.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I wouldn't recommend hard anodized rims. Hard anodized rims are more prone to cracking. Anodize layer is more brittle than the base metal, and cracking of the anodize can propagate into the base metal. This is why hard anodizing is never used on aluminum aircraft parts. I once spoke to an engineer at Sun Rims, who confirmed that their hard anodized rims were more likely to crack. When I asked why they still made them, he replied that it was what customers wanted, and that their sales would suffer if they didn't continue making them.

This cracking problem is usually limited to hard anodized rims, which use a very thick adodize layer Cosmetic anodizing is typically thin enough that any micro-cracks in the anodize layer are unlikely to propagate.

Mavic probably worked the hardest to "sell" hard anodized rims to consumers. And when these rims eventually cracked, they typically dodged warrantying them by blaming whomever built the wheels, claiming that the wheel was built with too much tension. When Mavic starting offering pre-built wheels, they could no longer blame blame the builder to avoid warranty replacement. This is why none of Mavic's pre-built wheels ever used hard anodizing (even while they still sold hard anodized bar rims at premium prices).

Thanks Mark

Good thing this is my bike we are talking about not the airplane I don't have.

Never had an issue with any of the Mavic rims years ago.

Theoretics aside, any experience with these rims?

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by robt57

Aren't they machined but anodised after?

They have a machined brake track. No clue when it's done but I assume it's before the ano. process.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by robt57

What ERD ate you guys seeing on the archetypes?

I saw QBP stated 593 QB measured instead of the 595 they are suppised to be...

I always measure each rim but seems consistently 595mm

Had some, went back to rims with machined brake tracks.
Life is too short to ride rims that look...skeezy.

The HA archetypes brake tracks are machined, just then HA and made dark but I get what you mean.

ahh, asked and answered above.

BUT, for the OP's question..GREAT rims, built dozens, no issues at all. I'm not a tubeless fanboy but surprised they aren't tubeless tho.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I wouldn't recommend hard anodized rims. Hard anodized rims are more prone to cracking. Anodize layer is more brittle than the base metal, and cracking of the anodize can propagate into the base metal. This is why hard anodizing is never used on aluminum aircraft parts. I once spoke to an engineer at Sun Rims, who confirmed that their hard anodized rims were more likely to crack. When I asked why they still made them, he replied that it was what customers wanted, and that their sales would suffer if they didn't continue making them.

This cracking problem is usually limited to hard anodized rims, which use a very thick adodize layer Cosmetic anodizing is typically thin enough that any micro-cracks in the anodize layer are unlikely to propagate.

Mavic probably worked the hardest to "sell" hard anodized rims to consumers. And when these rims eventually cracked, they typically dodged warrantying them by blaming whomever built the wheels, claiming that the wheel was built with too much tension. When Mavic starting offering pre-built wheels, they could no longer blame blame the builder to avoid warranty replacement. This is why none of Mavic's pre-built wheels ever used hard anodizing (even while they still sold hard anodized bar rims at premium prices).

Wasn't that mostly an issue with HA and then installing eyelets, on Mavic rims? But I agree, no benefit to HA and some 'detractors'. Alltho I do like black decals on the archetypes.

Thanks Mark
Good thing this is my bike we are talking about not the airplane I don't have.

Never had an issue with any of the Manic rims years ago.

Theoretics aside, any experience with these rims?

Well, once upon a time, not that long ago..in the shop, we saw MANY mavic rims, eyeleted ones, that had eyelets pulling out. Lots to the point that we built with black, silver but no mas HA Mavic..Trying to get a warranty from mavic was

[merckx]

I never had any cracking issues reaching back to Fiamme Red Labels, and this includes hard anno rims, until the Mavic Reflex replaced the Open 4CD. I usually build to 115 kentucky fried chickens on the drive side. That Reflex clincher though, crack city. Though I've never built Reflex tubs because of the reported cracking issue with those, I think that rim was under engineered for modern-dished wheels. Likely the same issue with the Reflex clincher. I've build more hard anno H Plus Son TB14 wheelsets than I can count with absolutely no issues. Same with Ambrosio Nemesis rims, spectacular.

[wallymann]

Originally Posted by rccardr

Perhaps. But hard to get more OG than a 70 year old hard core collector.

touche!

[jimoots]

Had a few sets, put loads of k's through them.

As others have mentioned the brake track anodizing won't last more than a single wet ride in some proper hills - mine started going after a couple of descents in the dry.

But as long as you've got that expectation they're a great rim.

[robt57]

I have a 32h 240s, cx-ray, belgium black wheelset. Rims still have wear dots showing. One barely, other better.

Torn between spending coin to redo with new Belgiums, maybe H+ sons archs i can get for 1/3 cost NOS.

Probably need to pull a tape and look see how the spokes are peeking at the nip tops...

Opinions?

Or just list them as is, catch/release here..

[geoffreychin08]

Just another positive review, Ive had mine since 2019 with dt370 track hubs. The anodizing hasn't come off yet. But I never ride in rain so maybe that's a thing. Normal commuting and puttering around town on a single speed with both front and rear brakes seems like the brake track can take it without wear.

[girlscantell]

Originally Posted by Monsieur Toast

I'm around 2,000 miles with a pair laced to Record hubs. I'm in the desert and they haven't seen any moisture, so the brake track easily passes the 6 foot test looking solid black all these miles later. I ride them pretty hard, including a short segment of fast gravel road I hit multiple times a week, and haven't had to true them despite running 25s.

That said, based upon forum feedback I placed an order last week for a set of Fulcrum Racing Zero Nites (see: Campagnolo Shamal Mille) instead of having another set of H+Son Archetypes built – https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=268456

Desert rider here, as well. Have some laced to T11s and cant say a bad thing after many years. brake track looks fine for age. 8 years?

[mecse]

I have a pair laced up that's been my commuter for a couple of years now. The black ano disappeared after the first hard rain, but other details:

• 2700 miles of rain/urban dirt / whatever else cities throw at it, along with lots of urban braking.
• Only had to do the most minor of truing on the wheels
• I have them laced up to some old ultegra hubs, and it's been flawless.

They still look pretty from afar, and brake track looks great and has plenty of life left.