Sent a deposit on a custom Ti frame today!

[MattTuck]

congrats on the upcoming bike! Glad to see good people getting new bikes.

And Ti, too. Good for that corrosive salty air.

[ERK55]

Originally Posted by NHAero

Thanks for the thoughts here!
Wheel size - 650b is to get better toe clearance at the 38mm tire size - clear decision here.
Head tube size - I don't know if I can find a carbon disc fork with a straight 1-1/8" steerer optimized for the size wheel/tire combo I want to run. The Whisky 9 Road Plus is 383mm A-C. What I've found so far with straight 1-1/8" steerer is 395 A-C. Hoping to not have 2" of space above the wheel :-)
Butted vs straight gauge - I want to hear Carl out on the weight vs. dent resistance on this. Brad doesn't use any butted. I'm hoping to learn the actual difference in weights in Ti between what Carl would pick for either before I decide.
On geometry - the builder has vast experience. Yet we have our own experiences. I've measured my bikes very carefully at this point to try to understand what makes a bike handle the way I want it to. I don't pretend to mastered this, FAR from it, but I feel I have learned some stuff. One thing I like is a road HTA and not too much trail, rather than one more slacked out, which is one of the reasons I'm not buying a stock gravel frame.

The Ritchey “Gravel Fork” (not “Adventure Fork”) has a 1 1/8” straight steerer, 383 axle to crown, rake of 47, and accomodates a 40mm tire on a 700 wheel. It would seem that most of these forks though, when paired with a 650b wheel, are going to show some space between the tire and fork crown.

[joevers]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

again, no overthinking. You're choosing carl because of his experience and expertise. I would never consider telling an experienced framebuilder anything at all about geometry. I tell them how i want a bike to ride and what i will use it for and they make the geometry decisions. That's why we get the good fellas to build the bikes and not send our own bikecad drawing to china to have it fabbed.

Think about this! You're not paying for a welder, you're paying for someone to make you a bike. I think really you've just gotta communicate what you want it to do and some of your preferences and give them time to come back to you with a geo chart and a build sheet. You can for sure say things like you prefer a low center of gravity or that you prefer slower more stable handling but beyond that not every decision is your own for better or for worse.

[NHAero]

Thanks so much!

Originally Posted by ERK55

The Ritchey “Gravel Fork” (not “Adventure Fork”) has a 1 1/8” straight steerer, 383 axle to crown, rake of 47, and accomodates a 40mm tire on a 700 wheel. It would seem that most of these forks though, when paired with a 650b wheel, are going to show some space between the tire and fork crown.

[NHAero]

I get this.
I'm an engineering consultant working for over 40 years in very low energy solar-powered buildings. I know how to collaborate and I know how to listen. A knowledgeable client brings a lot to the table.

I also know that much has changed in the past 45 years, but some fundamental physics hasn't. We learned a lot in this project at MIT in '73-74 that I believe hasn't changed.

Originally Posted by joevers

Think about this! You're not paying for a welder, you're paying for someone to make you a bike. I think really you've just gotta communicate what you want it to do and some of your preferences and give them time to come back to you with a geo chart and a build sheet. You can for sure say things like you prefer a low center of gravity or that you prefer slower more stable handling but beyond that not every decision is your own for better or for worse.

[kiwisimon]

OP what's your height, weight , shoe size?

When you race on a scale of 1-10 how risk adverse are you?

Will you be racing on this bike?

The answer to those questions should help determine tubing choices and HTA.

I went straight tubing purely for durability. People often comment on the chainstays being big but my bike has been raced off road, taken some big hits, been struck by a heap of rocks and I have never given the tubes a thought.

Have a list of things you definitely want from your frame. Keep it brief.

Then you can spitball your ideas under those bulllet points.

That's what I did and ultimately I pretty much ended up deleting the small stuff.

Don't be like the chef that goes to a restaurant and tells the waiter how his meal should be cooked with the specific spices and cooking times.

[NHAero]

I will try hard to not be that chef.
I'm probably at age 67 no longer 5'9" and weigh 140 lbs or so. Size 41/42 cycling shoes. Not a bit of racing contemplated.

Originally Posted by kiwisimon

OP what's your height, weight , shoe size?

When you race on a scale of 1-10 how risk adverse are you?

Will you be racing on this bike?

The answer to those questions should help determine tubing choices and HTA.

I went straight tubing purely for durability. People often comment on the chainstays being big but my bike has been raced off road, taken some big hits, been struck by a heap of rocks and I have never given the tubes a thought.

Have a list of things you definitely want from your frame. Keep it brief.

Then you can spitball your ideas under those bulllet points.

That's what I did and ultimately I pretty much ended up deleting the small stuff.

Don't be like the chef that goes to a restaurant and tells the waiter how his meal should be cooked with the specific spices and cooking times.

[NHAero]

Ritchey, bless their hearts, have an engineering drawing of this fork on their web site. I drew in a 650bx48 tire and it looks as though clearances are sufficient, and that a 42 tire will work fine with a fender too. Thanks!

Originally Posted by ERK55

The Ritchey “Gravel Fork” (not “Adventure Fork”) has a 1 1/8” straight steerer, 383 axle to crown, rake of 47, and accomodates a 40mm tire on a 700 wheel. It would seem that most of these forks though, when paired with a 650b wheel, are going to show some space between the tire and fork crown.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

By the way, i wonder how many bikes FireFly knocks out in a year?

I'm in agreement that it would be hard for me to sign on to a two year wait list, that just sounds difficult. Good for them for generating enough interest to keep demand for their product that high. It's impressive these days for sure.

I sent my deposit to FF in Apr 2020, with a quote of a one year wait. At the time, that sounded like eternity, but I rationalized that I might as well hold a spot, then I'd have time to make a decision later. Fast foward...I sent a message to FF last week and was told, with Covid issues they've only fallen slightly behind. They said they were hopeful my # would come up in June, 2021.

I'm still not fully sure what style of bike I want, and by the time I make up my mind, it'll be June and the year+ will have gone quickly.

I still vacillate between Bingham, Alliance and No22 too (for ti). I think those places now have lengthy wait lists too.

[terry]

Congrats Marc. Sounds like a fun exercise for the next few months. Gotta say I’m a wee bit jealous whenever I see guys getting in line for a new frame. It’s been years for new for me-I’m pretty easy to fit so it’s been used only the last bunch of frames. With the plethora of great ti builders in the US it must have been a tough decision.

[NHAero]

If I fit well on a stock frame I wouldn't go through the process. I don't see a stock frame with the stack and reach I want, especially one in Ti. I have to admit it's exciting though!

Originally Posted by terry

Congrats Marc. Sounds like a fun exercise for the next few months. Gotta say I’m a wee bit jealous whenever I see guys getting in line for a new frame. It’s been years for new for me-I’m pretty easy to fit so it’s been used only the last bunch of frames. With the plethora of great ti builders in the US it must have been a tough decision.

[kiwisimon]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I will try hard to not be that chef.
I'm probably at age 67 no longer 5'9" and weigh 140 lbs or so. Size 41/42 cycling shoes. Not a bit of racing contemplated.

Then I can see butted tubes if that is what you want. HTA could be as steep as you like with your feet size and then you just have to spend a looong time thinking about aesthetics. Don't forget to think about future proofing as well.

this is going to be fun to watch.

[skiezo]

When I was getting a Ti road built I was in contact with quite a few builders. Most of them said the weight difference between the two was mere ounces. Most said they used butted to get the qualities wanted.
My Desalvo has butted DT and the rest strait. Weight diff. between this and strait DT was like 14grams.
I would let him make the call to get the ride quality you want.

[NHAero]

Ultimately I will do what Carl feels is best. I'm looking forward to learning what the actual gauges are and doing the math on the grams.

Originally Posted by skiezo

When I was getting a Ti road built I was in contact with quite a few builders. Most of them said the weight difference between the two was mere ounces. Most said they used butted to get the qualities wanted.
My Desalvo has butted DT and the rest strait. Weight diff. between this and strait DT was like 14grams.
I would let him make the call to get the ride quality you want.

[xnetter]

Originally Posted by NHAero

Here's my (over)thinking on gearing:

I’m a low gears guy. When I was young and strong I never had more than a 100 inch gear. I’m not riding in races or with fast groups - I mostly ride on the road alone. I want a clamp-on front derailleur so I can use a wide range of chainrings. The chainrings will be 44-30 or 42-28, with the 11-34 Ultegra 11 speed cassette. Gear-inch range of 22-100. What I like about this cassette is that it favors the middle of the cassette in terms of minimizing jumps between cogs, instead of front loading the small cogs. SRAM 11-36 is 11-12-13 so it ends up with 22-25-28 in the mid-range, whereas the Shimano cassette is 11-13-15 and has 21-23-25-27 in the middle, which is where I am mostly riding. My "fastest" bike is the Firefly, which has a 46-34 crankset and the 19T cog is the 5th cog and gives me 17 mph at my cadence. (The new Campy Ekar cassette is worse despite 13 cogs, because it begins 10-11-12-13-14-15.)

With hydro discs I can't use a triple. Best case is that Shimano does 12 speed, and takes that 11-34 and adds a 38. I'd run a 44-32 and have a 22-104 range, with good mid-range gear spacing. Plus, only 12T difference in the front yields better shifting that 14 or 16 (such as 48-32 or 46-30 that are popping up as "gravel" cranksets.)

Perhaps the Rene Herse wide range double using the rings you want? It may or may not jive with your build aesthetically but it seems like the perfect product for the tooth counts you desire. I also run a TA 44-28 and 11-34t situation on my 700x35 road bike and I love it.

KJ