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  #31  
Old 05-15-2024, 09:23 AM
Jan Heine Jan Heine is offline
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The Large size has a separate side compartment that's for all those small things that you otherwise lose in the bottom of the bag. We also made the inside of the Medium and Large bags yellow, so it's easier to see small things inside. Adding a D-ring for a key is a good idea. We'll see about incorporating that in future updates.

The main plus of these bags is that they're made from waterproof fabric and use waterproof zippers. With most current bags, you get standing water inside even if you just ride through a brief shower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by litcrazy View Post
Jan,
If you’re still listening… I love my burrito bags and am awfully loyal to road runner bags on this front, but surely add a key fob, especially for the large sizes.
I don’t find they affect my handling at these sizes, but I do find it a hassle to wrestle my key from the bottom after a long ride. It sinks to the bottom under the Houdini shell, and mini pouch with lib balm, .5 ounce Nalgenes of sunscreen and hand sanitizer, etc. My dog gets very impatient with me, since she can hear me but I’m just not quick enough to open the door.
Roadrunner hasn’t added a key fob despite my requests, but perhaps this could your innovation as alas you are coming quite late to a crowded field with this product launch.
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2024, 09:27 AM
Jan Heine Jan Heine is offline
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That's interesting data. Perhaps my position on the bike is different, but in roll-down tests next to a rider with known aerodynamics, the bag seems to reduce aero drag. Basically, where the bag-free bike (with me on it) coasts slower than the 'reference bike/rider,' with a bag it's almost even.

But this is certainly something that warrants more testing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonrobot View Post
We know this type of bag is a significant source of aerodynamic drag. Are the René Herse bags designed to minimize this significant aerodynamic drag?

It doesn't seem so.



Making a product that is going to slow down all riders, and slower riders who rider for longer - such as randonneurs - seems to be the definition of sub-par performance.

By my calculations using the Silca Grinta wind tunnel data for a model; If I was using a René Herse Handlebar Roll Bag on my first 200k, my time would have been 12+ minutes slower.

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  #33  
Old 05-15-2024, 09:29 AM
Jan Heine Jan Heine is offline
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Looking at that photo again, I wonder whether the bag loosely dangling from the bars, which creates a narrow gap between bars and bag, is the reason for the aero disadvantage. I'd like to see that test done with the bag cinched up tightly against the bars.
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2024, 09:59 AM
benb benb is offline
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Not going to win any retro looks categories but what about a vertical cylinder bag that mounts to the head tube... shape it right and you would increase the "chord" of the head tube.

That you could shape for an aero advantage I bet. IIRC some Tri bikes do this?

Surely not UCI legal but these bags have nothing to do with that kind of racing.

Then get framebuilders to put some kind of mount there so you didn't need straps and you could give people a reason to buy a new bike. This whole thing might only work on a disc bike with internal routing but if you did it right it wouldn't interfere with the handling and could be nifty, if still a little weird looking. The size available would of course depend on the head tube length and room below the bars/stem, but for a long distance bike that didn't need to go for "slammed" there would be useful space.

Last edited by benb; 05-15-2024 at 10:02 AM.
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2024, 10:15 AM
.RJ .RJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Heine View Post
We won't ever make something with sub-par performance just because it's fashionable
Is something like this even worth making with on-par 'performance' ?

There are a hundred different handlebar burrito bags out there, and the brand has long made its stake on doing things that others arent doing - whether in aesthetics or function. Is this really anything different?
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2024, 10:22 AM
merckx merckx is offline
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Those burrito bags don't seem to offer on-the-fly accessibility to the contents within them. I don't see the value they offer versus simply using a saddlebag of the same size that is sheltered from the wind.

I do see the value of a front randonneur bag that is attached to a rack. Accessibility is easy and safe so that stuffing a rain jacket into the main compartment, or fetching a molasses cookie to beat back the man with the hammer, can be executed without stopping. I don't think you can do that with a burrito bag.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2024, 10:38 AM
Jan Heine Jan Heine is offline
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Like so many products we make, these came out of a need. We've tried many of the bags on the market, and we found them all lacking in one way or another. Rather than keep trying to find one that works well, we decided to just make our own. And if we need these bags, we figure our customers might need them, too.

It's a weird thing in today's world that some customers want to identify totally with a brand. If the brand makes a product they don't like or need, they feel almost a sense of betrayal. It would be one thing if that brand you trust made a product that doesn't work well, but that's not the case here. We first encountered this phenomenon when we tested a carbon bike in Bicycle Quarterly and found that it rode and performed very well. That upset a few readers...

Rest assured, we aren't going to stop making classic handlebar bags. In fact, we just introduced a new-and-improved version of those, and another is on the way. And we also don't mind if you don't use a bag at all and just carry your things in a cut-down water bottle.

I see our program like the menu of a restaurant. We offer lots of dishes. You choose what you want to eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .RJ View Post
Is something like this even worth making with on-par 'performance' ?

There are a hundred different handlebar burrito bags out there, and the brand has long made its stake on doing things that others arent doing - whether in aesthetics or function. Is this really anything different?
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2024, 10:43 AM
edgerat edgerat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkle View Post
this is top flight internet
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2024, 11:24 AM
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spoonrobot spoonrobot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Heine View Post
Like so many products we make, these came out of a need. We've tried many of the bags on the market, and we found them all lacking in one way or another. Rather than keep trying to find one that works well, we decided to just make our own. And if we need these bags, we figure our customers might need them, too.

It's a weird thing in today's world that some customers want to identify totally with a brand. If the brand makes a product they don't like or need, they feel almost a sense of betrayal. It would be one thing if that brand you trust made a product that doesn't work well, but that's not the case here. We first encountered this phenomenon when we tested a carbon bike in Bicycle Quarterly and found that it rode and performed very well. That upset a few readers...

Rest assured, we aren't going to stop making classic handlebar bags. In fact, we just introduced a new-and-improved version of those, and another is on the way. And we also don't mind if you don't use a bag at all and just carry your things in a cut-down water bottle.

I see our program like the menu of a restaurant. We offer lots of dishes. You choose what you want to eat.
It's nice you took the time to explain, but this misses the point. We are used to René Herse leading from the front, pushing rider and industry from unexpected places to new and exciting heights. Not releasing also-ran product that appears to degrade riding performance while also lacking features offered by other brands.

The carbon fiber bicycle you reference was vastly different from what was available on the market, and also ridden in a way that most cyclists were not familiar with but found themselves excited about after seeing the capability and design possibilities.

Regardless; the bag will sell, or not.
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  #40  
Old 05-15-2024, 11:44 AM
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redir redir is offline
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I prefer a frame pack personally but I'm at a loss to see what the big deal is.
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  #41  
Old 05-15-2024, 11:53 AM
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spoonrobot spoonrobot is offline
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There is no big deal, this is normal discussion of a new product. Something that happens thousands of times a year on this forum.

Discussion police, grass touchers, and others perplexed by opinion-havers; you are more than welcome to post. However, if you already have thousands of posts, please have the decency not to act confused about discussion, on a discussion forum.
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2024, 12:00 PM
tomato coupe tomato coupe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Heine View Post
I see our program like the menu of a restaurant. We offer lots of dishes. You choose what you want to eat.
You'd get less pushback on this forum if you had an early bird menu, if you know what I mean ...
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2024, 12:05 PM
.RJ .RJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Heine View Post
Like so many products we make, these came out of a need. We've tried many of the bags on the market, and we found them all lacking in one way or another. Rather than keep trying to find one that works well, we decided to just make our own. And if we need these bags, we figure our customers might need them, too.
And what problems is this one solving? I'm just curious about its place in the market for the brand.

It looks to be a clone of something like this - https://almsthre.com/products/handle...40368069312673

Same style zippers, side pocket and waterproof construction.

It doesnt really matter to me one way or another, the existence of this bag wont stop me from buying the tires, but it sure is a bandwagon that everyone is jumping on. Maybe its a profitable one for any bike brand these days.

It would sure look good on a Moots e-Bike, in an ironic way.
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  #44  
Old 05-15-2024, 12:42 PM
litcrazy litcrazy is offline
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I don’t struggle to get food out of these burritos on the fly. I like a tidy tool kit on back and a small burrito in front with my phone, an ultralight shell, food, etc.
they’re particularly nice for folks such as my wife who doesn’t like to wear a jersey except on big rides. She isn’t so concerned on the watts differential.
I think Jan’s claim is that it’s more waterproof than other burritos, so that’s the void it’s filling.
Water resistant fabric plus a normal zipper can pool water incredibly quickly as my son found trying to outrace a storm. A couple of minutes cost him the phone.
I admit I think it’s ugly. As always, spoon robot succeeds where my fail: pushing people who otherwise agree with him due to an abrasive tone.
This happens so often and yet is still everyone else’s misunderstanding on tone. This started as a flame which sure seems like a lot of emotional expenditure over a small bag.
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  #45  
Old 05-15-2024, 12:58 PM
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spoonrobot spoonrobot is offline
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Dang. Harsh, but fair.
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