OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Depending on the building, it is already happening. My last building in the US installed chargers and that was over 5 years ago. My building in London, also has chargers installed. It will be a new amenity for the luxury buildings. Same with hotels. So as noted above, again you charge overnight and no need to top up during the day.

I'm not talking about "luxury buildings". People who live in "luxury buildings" and frequent hotels are not the average schmoe being pushed into this. I'm talking about the segment in America pretty much just getting by, driving a car into the ground, and don't need a probably 20-30,000 dollar hit to their life's expenses, especially considering grocery costs, to start, at the moment. Life is hard enough.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

the average schmoe being pushed into this. .

I dont understand the sentiment that anyone is being "pushed into" electric cars. I can go to any car lot in America right now, new or used; or any marketplace like craigslist, autotrader, carmax, whatever - and the overwhelming majority of vehicles on offer are gas cars.

I have 4 ICE vehicles in my driveway right now, not counting the motos. three are 10+ years old. There is literally nothing preventing me from driving them for the long forseeable future, which is what I intend to do.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I dont understand the sentiment that anyone is being "pushed into" electric cars. I can go to any car lot in America right now, new or used; or any marketplace like craigslist, autotrader, carmax, whatever - and the overwhelming majority of vehicles on offer are gas cars.

I have 4 ICE vehicles in my driveway right now, not counting the motos. three are 10+ years old. There is literally nothing preventing me from driving them for the long forseeable future, which is what I intend to do.

As California goes, so does the nation.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...an-2024-02-28/

[Mr. Pink]

I'm planning on buying a Toyota 4Runner when my present car is close to death. That should easily take me to my grave.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I dont understand the sentiment that anyone is being "pushed into" electric cars.

It's not hard to see - the Govt won't force you to buy an EV, but they will make it virtually impossible for you to buy an ICE vehicle.

Biden administration rolls out new tailpipe rules that will boost EVs and hybrids
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/clima...ars/index.html

The Biden administration on Wednesday finalized one of the most significant pieces of its ambitious climate agenda: the strongest new tailpipe rules for passenger cars and trucks that will decisively push the US auto market toward electric vehicles and hybrids.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

As California goes, so does the nation.(...)

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

It's not hard to see - the Govt won't force you to buy an EV, but they will make it virtually impossible for you to buy an ICE vehicle.(...)

This is what's creating these love/hate reactions to electric car adoption. People are worried they'll be forced into something they don't want.

I don't think that'll happen for a minute!

To get anything done you have to establish some goals. But when 2035 or whenever arrives, if electric cars aren't laughably superior in every way, the deadline to eliminate ICE vehicles will be pushed back. Millions of people use their vehicles to earn a living. There's *no way* a politician is going to tell those voters they have to earn their living with an electric vehicle that can't cut the mustard.

it took a few decades for the car to replace the horse, but when it did, it was because *no one in their right mind* would want a horse once they saw what a car or truck could do. So it will be with electric vehicles.

It took decades to turn the rutted dirt roads horse carriages rode on into a smooth paved highway system. During that time millions of gasoline stations were built from scratch.

These are still early days. Everything we take for granted that make ICE vehicles so convenient at one time didn't exist. Electric vehicle shortcomings and infrastructure will all get handled, and we'll eventually look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

This is what's creating these love/hate reactions to electric car adoption. People are worried they'll be forced into something they don't want.

I don't think that'll happen for a minute!

To get anything done you have to establish some goals. But when 2035 or whenever arrives, if electric cars aren't laughably superior in every way the deadline to eliminate ICE vehicles will be pushed back. Millions of people use their vehicles to earn a living. There's *no way* a politician is going to tell those voters they have to earn their living with an electric vehicle that can't cut the mustard.

it took a few decades for the car to replace the horse, but when it did, it was because *no one in their right mind* would want a horse once they saw what a car or truck could do. So it will be with electric vehicles.

It took decades to turn the rutted dirt roads horse carriages rode on into a smooth paved highway system. During that time millions of gasoline stations were built.

These are still early days. Everything we take for granted that make ICE vehicles so convenient at one time didn't exist. Electric vehicle shortcoming and infrastructure will all get handled, and we'll eventually look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

All of this may be true but unless some massive breakthrough in battery technology comes along I would think that hydrogen ice or fuel cell vehicles may be what comes out on top if not for cars but for commercial and industrial vehicles

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

This is what's creating these love/hate reactions to electric car adoption. People are worried they'll be forced into something they don't want.

I don't think that'll happen for a minute!

To get anything done you have to establish some goals. But when 2035 or whenever arrives, if electric cars aren't laughably superior in every way the deadline to eliminate ICE vehicles will be pushed back. Millions of people use their vehicles to earn a living. There's *no way* a politician is going to tell those voters they have to earn their living with an electric vehicle that can't cut the mustard.

it took a few decades for the car to replace the horse, but when it did, it was because *no one in their right mind* would want a horse once they saw what a car or truck could do. So it will be with electric vehicles.

It took decades to turn the rutted dirt roads horse carriages rode on into a smooth paved highway system. During that time millions of gasoline stations were built.

These are still early days. Everything we take for granted that make ICE vehicles so convenient at one time didn't exist. Electric vehicle shortcoming and infrastructure will all get handled, and we'll eventually look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

If electric vehicles are so superior to ICE vehicles, won't consumers adapt them of their own accord? No rational consumer is going to opt to stick with something inferior if there is a plainly better option to be had, right?

There shouldn't need to be government mandates or goals of any sort.

Did governments force the adoption of cars and enact measures to eliminate the continued use of horse carriages?

And what's wrong with allowing consumers to decide what they want? Wouldn't it be better to simply let them choose? Put every option on an equal footing and allow consumers to decide what is best for them.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

If electric vehicles are so superior to ICE vehicles, won't consumers adapt them of their own accord? (...)

Yes, I would. I don't need no stinkin' deadline.

But these are early days. Though an electric vehicle works for me as my next car, it doesn't fit the bill for *everybody*. Ya gotta set some goals or nothing gets done.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

If electric vehicles are so superior to ICE vehicles, won't consumers adapt them of their own accord? No rational consumer is going to opt to stick with something inferior if there is a plainly better option to be had, right?

There shouldn't need to be government mandates or goals of any sort.

Did governments force the adoption of cars and enact measures to eliminate the continued use of horse carriages?

And what's wrong with allowing consumers to decide what they want? Wouldn't it be better to simply let them choose? Put every option on an equal footing and allow consumers to decide what is best for them.

If we did what you are suggesting for every harmful technology then we would have no ozone layer left in the atmosphere because we would still be using CFCs. No more birds of prey (DDT). Tons of smog and acid rain (sulphur and nitrogen oxides). Lead in everything we eat drink and breath (leaded gasoline paint, pipes, and solder). This list continues.

Besides, the planet will exist beyond our lifetimes and all of its human and other inhabitants deserve a chance. Maybe we need to see ourselves as citizens first and not just consumers or taxpayers. We truly are all in this together. Most of our choices affect each other and the planet.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

rational consumer

Well, that's a problem.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

This is what's creating these love/hate reactions to electric car adoption. People are worried they'll be forced into something they don't want.

I don't think that'll happen for a minute!

To get anything done you have to establish some goals. But when 2035 or whenever arrives, if electric cars aren't laughably superior in every way, the deadline to eliminate ICE vehicles will be pushed back. Millions of people use their vehicles to earn a living. There's *no way* a politician is going to tell those voters they have to earn their living with an electric vehicle that can't cut the mustard.

it took a few decades for the car to replace the horse, but when it did, it was because *no one in their right mind* would want a horse once they saw what a car or truck could do. So it will be with electric vehicles.

It took decades to turn the rutted dirt roads horse carriages rode on into a smooth paved highway system. During that time millions of gasoline stations were built from scratch.

These are still early days. Everything we take for granted that make ICE vehicles so convenient at one time didn't exist. Electric vehicle shortcoming and infrastructure will all get handled, and we'll eventually look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

We don't have decades to let the market figure this out. That was a forward looking progression that you reference. Our economy benefitted from the transition in every way, (except the breeders of those massive horses that were the trucks of the nineteenth century), and, we grew into it. Now we have government mandates that easily proclaim that everyone will have to drive an EV pretty soon, like it or not, with pretty much zero prep. Easy for a lot of them, they have drivers. This at the same time we are "competing" with China, as they build out a whole new grid and infrastructure to accommodate their cheap electric car industry (so cheap, we have banned their import). Our debt laden economy is walking a tightrope, we don't need to damage it with those costs.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

If we did what you are suggesting for every harmful technology then we would have no ozone layer left in the atmosphere because we would still be using CFCs. No more birds of prey (DDT). Tons of smog and acid rain (sulphur and nitrogen oxides). Lead in everything we eat drink and breath (leaded gasoline paint, pipes, and solder). This list continues.

Besides, the planet will exist beyond our lifetimes and all of its human and other inhabitants deserve a chance. Maybe we need to see ourselves as citizens first and not just consumers or taxpayers. We truly are all in this together. Most of our choices affect each other and the planet.

Then, seriously, live in a city with energy efficient multi unit buildings, and use public transport. To start. Why are we still insisting on this expansion of exurbia filled with energy wasting macmansions and all the infrastructure that supports it? All this money can improve our public transit ten times over, but, nope, where's the profit in that?

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

(...) That was a forward looking progression that you reference. Our economy benefitted from the transition in every way (...) we are "competing" with China, as they build out a whole new grid and infrastructure (...)

Yes, the Chinese definitely think their economy will benefit in every way from electrification.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Then, seriously, live in a city with energy efficient multi unit buildings, and use public transport. To start. Why are we still insisting on this expansion of exurbia filled with energy wasting macmansions and all the infrastructure that supports it? All this money can improve our public transit ten times over, but, nope, where's the profit in that?

Great advice, sir! I hate cars in general. I may never buy that electric car at all if I move from L.A. when I retire.

Los Angeles had the best public transit in the world in the early 20th century. Whatever happened to that anyway?

Oh, yeah, now I remember....