Compass Parts vs. MUSA

[charliedid]

Also, IME if you buy better than average it all works just fine if you set it up correctly. Sometimes it simply a matter of aesthetic or who you want to give your money to.

[muz]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Dogrange and Jan both mentioned this: (We use the hex bolts, because they allow a forward extension onto which you can mount a rack more securely than if you sandwich rack and brake on the same bolt.)

I'm feeling dumb, would someone explain this further?

Maybe with pictures, please

This is really a red herring, but here it goes. You can use an Allen head bolt, to be replaced by a hex double sided bolt if you need to mount a rack. This is sort of how Paul's brakes work, too.

https://velo-orange.com/products/can...mounting-bolts

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

it is a small detail, and a nitpick for sure, but one thing that bothers me is the use of hex bolts for mounting.

when i'm on the road, i carry a multitool with 4/5/6 allen keys. i'm not carrying wrenches with me, period. their use of regular bolts as opposed to choosing metric allen stuff is an example of, IMO, needlessly retro.

just use any other M6 bolt

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by muz

This is really a red herring, but here it goes. You can use an Allen head bolt, to be replaced by a hex double sided bolt if you need to mount a rack. This is sort of how Paul's brakes work, too.

https://velo-orange.com/products/can...mounting-bolts

Ah ha! Now I see.

Either way you need to buy double threaded bolts if you want to add a rack in this fashion.

Not sure if that is a feature or a benefit.

Weird

[Jan Heine]

Here is a photo of a Compass rack attached to a Compass brake and Kaisei fork blades (with a Compass crown). The whole system is designed to work together.

Jan Heine

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Jan Heine

Here is a photo of a Compass rack attached to a Compass brake and Kaisei fork blades (with a Compass crown). The whole system is designed to work together.

Jan Heine

Thanks Jan,

Either way you replace the bolt to install the rack, so what the brake comes spec'd with is irrelevant if no rack is installed. Am I reading this correctly?

With Paul brakes the adjustment mechanism with a recessed bolt makes this impossible. So you just buy a rack that attaches mid blade and to the crown.

Staying true to the roots of the design, with a cohesive attachment. I get it.

[donevwil]

Originally Posted by charliedid

...With Paul brakes the adjustment mechanism with a recessed bolt makes this impossible....

Paul Rack Adapter

[Jan Heine]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Thanks Jan,

Either way you replace the bolt to install the rack, so what the brake comes spec'd with is irrelevant if no rack is installed. Am I reading this correctly?

When you buy Compass brakes, we offer a choice of bolts with or without rack-mounting extensions. Also, it makes sense to match front and rear bolts... For the rear, we figured the Allen bolts are so ubiquitous that most people have them lying around, so we ship with nice hex bolts that are impossible to find otherwise.

Originally Posted by charliedid

Thanks Jan,
So you just buy a rack that attaches mid blade and to the crown.

The attachment to the crown has to be a flat strap that goes under the brake arms, which prevents the brake from opening enough to let through an inflated 44 mm tire. Also, flat metal parts are heavier than tubes. (Our rack weighs just 168 g).

While all these parts work great on fenderless racing bikes, their design also makes it possible to build a bike with racks, fenders and lights that offers the same performance as a racing bike. To do that, you need to push the design and manufacture quite a bit further...

As to the serviceability, on a good bike, your brake bolts never should come loose. (The only one I ever had come loose was holding both brake and rack, and that one worked loose - hence my preference for the Herse-style bolts that prevent this.) So on the road, there is no need to carry a wrench to tighten the brake bolts.

Jan Heine
Founder
Compass Cycles
www.compasscycle.com

[charliedid]

[QUOTE=donevwil;2306709]Paul Rack Adapter

Ah good point, I knew those existed.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Jan Heine

When you buy Compass brakes, we offer a choice of bolts with or without rack-mounting extensions. Also, it makes sense to match front and rear bolts... For the rear, we figured the Allen bolts are so ubiquitous that most people have them lying around, so we ship with nice hex bolts that are impossible to find otherwise.



The attachment to the crown has to be a flat strap that goes under the brake arms, which prevents the brake from opening enough to let through an inflated 44 mm tire. Also, flat metal parts are heavier than tubes. (Our rack weighs just 168 g).

While all these parts work great on fenderless racing bikes, their design also makes it possible to build a bike with racks, fenders and lights that offers the same performance as a racing bike. To do that, you need to push the design and manufacture quite a bit further...

As to the serviceability, on a good bike, your brake bolts never should come loose. (The only one I ever had come loose was holding both brake and rack, and that one worked loose - hence my preference for the Herse-style bolts that prevent this.) So on the road, there is no need to carry a wrench to tighten the brake bolts.

Jan Heine
Founder
Compass Cycles
www.compasscycle.com

I follow.

Thanks

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

it is a small detail, and a nitpick for sure, but one thing that bothers me is the use of hex bolts for mounting.

when i'm on the road, i carry a multitool with 4/5/6 allen keys. i'm not carrying wrenches with me, period. their use of regular bolts as opposed to choosing metric allen stuff is an example of, IMO, needlessly retro.

Well there are some fasteners on a bike that will never need to be worked on on the road, these would fall under that category. I dab of thread lock and they are on like donkey kong. We can not carry all the tools to service every possible failure, just the most likely ones. The polished bolts look nicer than an allen bolt and considering the frequency that the bolts need to be turned it is a good choice.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Well there are some fasteners on a bike that will never need to be worked on on the road, these would fall under that category. I dab of thread lock and they are on like donkey kong. We can not carry all the tools to service every possible failure, just the most likely ones. The polished bolts look nicer than an allen bolt and considering the frequency that the bolts need to be turned it is a good choice.

on the other hand - the acorn nut on the cable hanger: this is something i HAVE had to tweak on the road to adjust pad/rim clearance. there appears to be no other way on these brakes to adjust that. wouldnt want to be far from the shop and not be able to do that. just a counter point.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

on the other hand - the acorn nut on the cable hanger: this is something i HAVE had to tweak on the road to adjust pad/rim clearance. there appears to be no other way on these brakes to adjust that. wouldnt want to be far from the shop and not be able to do that. just a counter point.

I can think of at least three: 1) undo the 10mm nut holding the pad post and push the pads in closer to the rim; 2) use the barrel adjuster on the cable hanger; 3) use an inline cable adjuster. But how often do you need to do that on the road?

[Jan Heine]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

on the other hand - the acorn nut on the cable hanger: this is something i HAVE had to tweak on the road to adjust pad/rim clearance. there appears to be no other way on these brakes to adjust that. wouldnt want to be far from the shop and not be able to do that. just a counter point.

You shouldn't adjust the cable hanger. That one is designed to be installed once, and not touched again.

Compared to 'modern' threaded pads, where there is no way to adjust the pad/rim clearance as the pads wear (unless you add spacers), you actually have more options to adjust the pad/rim clearance, as Steve pointed out.

However, the geometry of the René Herse brakes makes this a rare occurrence. I am half-way through the (thick) pads on the set I put on my Urban Bike – winter in hilly, rainy Seattle is hard on brake pads – and no need to adjust the pads/cables/anything yet. (Added advantage of the bigger gap between pad and rim: They won't rub even if your wheel is a bit out of true.)

It's a different issue with low-profile cantis, where the mechanical advantage changes as the pads wear. With those, you need to get the pad clearance just right, otherwise, you risk bottoming out the brake lever against the bars. With the René Herse cantis, the mechanical advantage doesn't change much as the straddle cable angle changes, and yet they have more power than the Mafacs and their clones, because they are stiffer and a bit 'lower-profile.'

That said, we are looking into making a small wrench like those old Mafac tools that you can carry on the road - 8 and 10 mm. I'd love to make it in titanium to make it weigh less than 10 grams - much lighter than an Allen key. Of course, currently, you still have to carry multiple Allen and even Torx wrenches to deal with the mis-matched bolts on the various components on your bike. Perhaps some day there will be a complete Compass groupset that uses only those 2 wrench sizes for any bolt you need to adjust on the road, and a superlight wrench to go with it.

Jan Heine
Founder
Compass Cycles
www.compasscycle.com
Instagram: compasscycle

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

on the other hand - the acorn nut on the cable hanger: this is something i HAVE had to tweak on the road to adjust pad/rim clearance. there appears to be no other way on these brakes to adjust that. wouldnt want to be far from the shop and not be able to do that. just a counter point.

Yes, fair enough. I did not notice that. With road brake levers you would be SOL if you needed to open up the brakes for a out of true wheel but still needed some stopping ability.