Do gravel race participants care about "lining up with the pros"?

[Nomadmax]

For me it would depend on the "pro". Hinault, LeMond, Roche (the dad), Kelly and the like, oh heck yeah. Current pros would have to be one of about five guys. After that, meh.

[BRad704]

Here's my take after doing Midsouth 100 a couple of times "with the pros".

I do love lining up in the corral and seeing the pros on the front row, literally a few dozen feet away from me, but once the race starts, they are SO FAST and SO GONE that it doesn't matter at all anymore.

For the women's starts, what I've read is that the other pro women "get lost" in the crowd and you have no idea who's in front or behind you (you=pro women).

I can see a benefit to having a schedule like this, because it would give the Pro Women time to sort themselves out together, THEN the tactics can start once they've caught or been-caught after some time on the course.

• Pro/Elite Men @ 7:00am.
• Pro/Elite Women @ 7:05am
• Amateur Mass Start @ 7:15am

[shoota]

Originally Posted by BRad704

Here's my take after doing Midsouth 100 a couple of times "with the pros".

I do love lining up in the corral and seeing the pros on the front row, literally a few dozen feet away from me, but once the race starts, they are SO FAST and SO GONE that it doesn't matter at all anymore.

For the women's starts, what I've read is that the other pro women "get lost" in the crowd and you have no idea who's in front or behind you (you=pro women).

I can see a benefit to having a schedule like this, because it would give the Pro Women time to sort themselves out together, THEN the tactics can start once they've caught or been-caught after some time on the course.

• Pro/Elite Men @ 7:00am.
• Pro/Elite Women @ 7:05am
• Amateur Mass Start @ 7:15am

No chance Bobby will do a staggered start. It's not in keeping with the spirit of gravel

[KJMUNC]

Originally Posted by Nomadmax

For me it would depend on the "pro". Hinault, LeMond, Roche (the dad), Kelly and the like, oh heck yeah. Current pros would have to be one of about five guys. After that, meh.

It's Alejandro Valverde at BWR CA....sure he's a polarizing figure and he's retired as a road racer, but can't wait to see the times he puts up on the local segments. Plus, he's a guy that I'd never get to see outside of Europe, so it's cool that he's racing (fully assuming a good chunk of my entry fee is paying his expenses )

[72gmc]

Isn't this a solved problem? Unless there's also a concern about coverage of both pro fields, and a worry that the women get jumbled up in the crowd and get less coverage. But it seems to me that top women and men get lots of coverage at Leadville, and it grids thusly:

6:30am – RACE START — Gold AND Silver
6:32:30am – Red
6:35am – Green
6:37:30am – Purple
6:40am – Orange
6:42:30am – Blue
6:45am – White
6:47:30am – Brown 1
6:50am – Brown 2

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

Isn't this a solved problem? Unless there's also a concern about coverage of both pro fields, and a worry that the women get jumbled up in the crowd and get less coverage. But it seems to me that top women and men get lots of coverage at Leadville, and it grids thusly:

6:30am – RACE START — Gold AND Silver
6:32:30am – Red
6:35am – Green
6:37:30am – Purple
6:40am – Orange
6:42:30am – Blue
6:45am – White
6:47:30am – Brown 1
6:50am – Brown 2

It's not solved in the mind of Lauren De Crescenzo who wants events on separate days.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

Isn't this a solved problem? Unless there's also a concern about coverage of both pro fields, and a worry that the women get jumbled up in the crowd and get less coverage. But it seems to me that top women and men get lots of coverage at Leadville, and it grids thusly:

6:30am – RACE START — Gold AND Silver
6:32:30am – Red
6:35am – Green
6:37:30am – Purple
6:40am – Orange
6:42:30am – Blue
6:45am – White
6:47:30am – Brown 1
6:50am – Brown 2

And yea, there is some drafting at Leadville, but not to the extent of a 200 mile gravel race.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by Nomadmax

For me it would depend on the "pro". Hinault, LeMond, Roche (the dad), Kelly and the like, oh heck yeah. Current pros would have to be one of about five guys. After that, meh.

Tell me you're old without telling me you're old.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by BRad704

I can see a benefit to having a schedule like this, because it would give the Pro Women time to sort themselves out together, THEN the tactics can start once they've caught or been-caught after some time on the course.

• Pro/Elite Men @ 7:00am.
• Pro/Elite Women @ 7:05am
• Amateur Mass Start @ 7:15am

This makes the most sense. The only problem is you’d have to cap the men’s pro field to avoid the slower men being caught by the fastest women (which puts us back at square one - men impacting the women’s race). Looking at Sea Otter 2024, you’d have to cap around ~50 men - men in the mid-50s were slower than the women’s winner.

As for me, as a barely mid-pack age-group nobody, I like the atmosphere of mass start and having the pros on course at the same time. If they start 20 minutes ahead of me that makes no difference. The only time I see them is neutral rollout and when they lap me.

[KJMUNC]

Originally Posted by prototoast

It's not solved in the mind of Lauren De Crescenzo who wants events on separate days.

So run it on separate days and see what happens. My guess is it would financially crush the race organizers (at least in the current model)....which is why they don't do it. If there was money to be made doing it on 2 days vs. 1, doesn't she think they'd already be doing it? If you force organizers to do it in the name of "parity", you're just subsidizing.....and all that comes with that. Hence my "...cake and eat it too..." comment.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by BRad704

Here's my take after doing Midsouth 100 a couple of times "with the pros".

I do love lining up in the corral and seeing the pros on the front row, literally a few dozen feet away from me, but once the race starts, they are SO FAST and SO GONE that it doesn't matter at all anymore.

For the women's starts, what I've read is that the other pro women "get lost" in the crowd and you have no idea who's in front or behind you (you=pro women).

I can see a benefit to having a schedule like this, because it would give the Pro Women time to sort themselves out together, THEN the tactics can start once they've caught or been-caught after some time on the course.

• Pro/Elite Men @ 7:00am.
• Pro/Elite Women @ 7:05am
• Amateur Mass Start @ 7:15am

The fastest amateur men are as fast as the lead pack of pro/elite women and 10 minutes isn't enough time. The top 20 non pro/elite men at Unbound 2023 would be intermingled with the top 10 pro/elite women. The issue is that the outspoken (maybe majority of?) pro women don't want to have any tactics with the men, they don't want to race with them at all.

[Nomadmax]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

Tell me you're old without telling me you're old.

Tis true

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by KJMUNC

So run it on separate days and see what happens. My guess is it would financially crush the race organizers (at least in the current model)....which is why they don't do it. If there was money to be made doing it on 2 days vs. 1, doesn't she think they'd already be doing it? If you force organizers to do it in the name of "parity", you're just subsidizing.....and all that comes with that. Hence my "...cake and eat it too..." comment.

It says a lot about the sport that events with 2-4000+ attendees at $200+ each cannot support 2 race days. Especially when they are held on open roads with often minimal public service support and largely volunteer labor force.

The races (and professional cycling) are already subsidized in a myriad of ways, while I'm not sure separate days are the answer or even a good option - I don't think this is a credible argument.

Of note for some unaware - the Ironman Championships was split between two days for men/women for the last two years, as well the UCI gravel world championships held last year.

[rice rocket]

If you've attended any cycling events, you'd know that the men outnumber the women 10:1, if not worse.

You could do separate days, but you would have to scale for two separate events that differ in size by an order of magnitude. The women's event would seem like a pity party.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

It says a lot about the sport that events with 2-4000+ attendees at $200+ each cannot support 2 race days. Especially when they are held on open roads with often minimal public service support and largely volunteer labor force.

The races (and professional cycling) are already subsidized in a myriad of ways, while I'm not sure separate days are the answer or even a good option - I don't think this is a credible argument.

Of note for some unaware - the Ironman Championships was split between two days for men/women for the last two years, as well the UCI gravel world championships held last year.

Ironman can fill a full field of mens and womens. No way that happens in gravel, or any cycling event for that matter.