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  #16  
Old 05-25-2019, 10:22 PM
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Veloo Veloo is offline
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Canadian climber describes the conditions.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/canadia...rest-1.4437553
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2019, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CunegoFan View Post


I don't know what that is but it is not any sort of climbing I am familiar with.
.


It's the gran fondo of climbing.
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2019, 06:48 AM
GonaSovereign GonaSovereign is offline
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As someone who grew up climbing in less well known places, I’d go in a heartbeat.

More importantly, Nepal needs the money. They should quadruple the permit fee and stipulate everyone with a permit needs to pack out 5x their weight in garbage. It wouldn’t decrease demand one bit.
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2019, 08:56 AM
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Looks like an expensive way to commit suicide
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2019, 10:00 AM
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sickening to see how much garbage is there.
Not as sickening as the corpses.
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:39 PM
NHAero NHAero is offline
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Turn-around time

Before I experienced disc injury and muscle loss in left foot and lower leg in 2006 I spent a fair bit of time hiking the NH White Mountains in winter, finishing all 48 summits over 4,000 ft in the early 2000s. No altitude issues there, but serious adverse winds, cold, and snow and ice. Some I did solo and some with a friend, and we always had a turnaround time no matter how close we were to a summit.

My last peak in the winter was Mt Jefferson, which has a fairly indistinct peak that has three "summits". The first time I attempted it was in thick pea soup clouds - I couldn't see 20 ft. This is before GPS (not that I would want to rely on that). I kept going up because I could retrace my steps in the snow. The summit cone had blown free of snow and was just ice, so I couldn't retrace my route (hard to read crampon tracks :-). I turned around because I didn't want to get lost up there, probably within a few hundred feet of the true summit. The mountain will be there for another try!

I do get it that for many of these Everest climbers it's a long-held dream, once in a lifetime. But I'd still have a turnaround time if I was in that line.
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  #22  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:49 PM
Jaybee Jaybee is online now
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Originally Posted by NHAero View Post
Before I experienced disc injury and muscle loss in left foot and lower leg in 2006 I spent a fair bit of time hiking the NH White Mountains in winter, finishing all 48 summits over 4,000 ft in the early 2000s. No altitude issues there, but serious adverse winds, cold, and snow and ice. Some I did solo and some with a friend, and we always had a turnaround time no matter how close we were to a summit.

My last peak in the winter was Mt Jefferson, which has a fairly indistinct peak that has three "summits". The first time I attempted it was in thick pea soup clouds - I couldn't see 20 ft. This is before GPS (not that I would want to rely on that). I kept going up because I could retrace my steps in the snow. The summit cone had blown free of snow and was just ice, so I couldn't retrace my route (hard to read crampon tracks :-). I turned around because I didn't want to get lost up there, probably within a few hundred feet of the true summit. The mountain will be there for another try!

I do get it that for many of these Everest climbers it's a long-held dream, once in a lifetime. But I'd still have a turnaround time if I was in that line.
I think most climbers, even on something as “touristy” as Everest, do have a turnaround time. The window for a summit attempt is pretty much May, and that’s it. If you aren’t heading back to Camp 4 by 11:00am, you have probably made a mistake. I think the reason this gets violated is the taste of success so near plus some sunk-cost fallacy combined with hypoxia which leads to poor judgement. Consequences are rapid and harsh above 26,000 ft.
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  #23  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:54 PM
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If someone as experienced and disciplined as Rob Hall can violate his turnaround time (for a client who had turned back within sight of the summit the previous year), then . . .
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  #24  
Old 05-26-2019, 05:34 PM
CunegoFan CunegoFan is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaybee View Post
I think most climbers, even on something as “touristy” as Everest, do have a turnaround time. The window for a summit attempt is pretty much May, and that’s it. If you aren’t heading back to Camp 4 by 11:00am, you have probably made a mistake. I think the reason this gets violated is the taste of success so near plus some sunk-cost fallacy combined with hypoxia which leads to poor judgement. Consequences are rapid and harsh above 26,000 ft.
Say you are in the middle of the line there and decide to turn around or, even worse, begin to have problems. How long does it take to make your way past everyone using the same rope?
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  #25  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:41 PM
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Most of those people have no business being on the mountain. Anyone who needs a Sherpa to short line them should be sent down. The problem is there is too much $ on the line for the guides to say no.
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  #26  
Old 05-26-2019, 08:15 PM
BobbyJones BobbyJones is offline
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I don't get what all the hate is. (besides the garbage issue).

What qualifies as "earning the right" to do it?

Much like the rest of life, you pay your money and take your chances.
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  #27  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:33 PM
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The hate has to do with paying others to risk their lives to drag you up a mountain you don't have the skills to climb yourself. And somehow it has become a big business -catering to big egos with low talent and big check books.
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  #28  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by windsurfer View Post
The hate has to do with paying others to risk their lives to drag you up a mountain you don't have the skills to climb yourself. And somehow it has become a big business -catering to big egos with low talent and big check books.
Wouldn't the hate be better placed on those who succumb to the temptation to chase money over their better interests? Shuts it all down.
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  #29  
Old 05-26-2019, 10:04 PM
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I was invited to a slide show put on by a friends' father who was with Rob Hall and Doug Hansen in '95, the year before they both died. My friends father was offered a chance to return the next year at a reduced price but declined. Ironically, he died in a bike accident about 5 years later when he lost control of his bicycle bombing down a hill.

As he talked during the slide show it was quickly clear to me he had no clue about mountaineering . He had just done several guided trips up Aconcongua, Rainer and Denali and did what the guides told him to do. He was obviously a strong endurance athlete. But---what amazed me was that he was mad he had to turn around at the South Summit when Hall said it was time to descend at 2pm. He was also really mad at the Sherpas for not having broken trail fixed a rope to the summit.Really ? He amazingly concluded the slide show by saying he climbed Everest. No qualifiers. None. Just that he climbed it. I wanted to say real climbers have been known to say they didn't summit after turning around 10 meters from the top, but I was good and kept my mouth shut.

I suspect a fair number of the climbers in that photo were from a similar background and really didn't understand the danger they were putting themselves in. The guys I know who've summited Everest and other big peaks know the danger and try their hardest to avoid these situations. The summit season window is short and for most climbers having a chance to climb to the tallest point on the planet is irresistible.
I've been invited to climb in the Himalayas twice and declined both times because I had a young family at the time and no mountain is risk free.

It's sad to me to see photos like this as I know the litter at both the South Col and basecamp along with the human waste is destroying the area. I agree with the sentiment that the peak permit fee should be 5x higher. The economy there depends on tourism and it's really the only time of year that the Serpas and porters can make a decent wage.
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  #30  
Old 05-27-2019, 10:31 AM
windsurfer windsurfer is offline
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Originally Posted by sitzmark View Post
Wouldn't the hate be better placed on those who succumb to the temptation to chase money over their better interests? Shuts it all down.
I have friends that were on that side of the equation. Take a 25 year old who is living in his car so he can climb full time and offer him six figures to go to the Himalayas to be a rope gun. Do you really expect him to say no ? The real telling factor is that despite the huge pay, these young climbers rarely spend more than a season or two on the mountain.
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