44mm headtubes and tapered forks, worth it?

[FlashUNC]

I've got a new project in the pipeline that should be ready sometime this Spring, and I'm kicking around getting a 44mm headtube with a tapered fork over the standard 1 1/8.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery? Is it totally overkill? Totally awesome?

Figure this has to be better to argue about than Rapha...

[EDS]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

I've got a new project in the pipeline that should be ready sometime this Spring, and I'm kicking around getting a 44mm headtube with a tapered fork over the standard 1 1/8.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery? Is it totally overkill? Totally awesome?

Figure this has to be better to argue about than Rapha...

Unless you are a big boy, I think it is more of an aesthetic issue. I personally like the way it looks and would definitely go with the oversized headtube/tapered fork, but I am probably in the minority on that.

[red7]

The 44mm head tube is ideal for a 29er where the fork's extra length puts a lot of leverage on the head tube. The larger diameter helps resist those forces.

If you have a stiff fork and wheel on your road bike, the 1 1/8 standard is plenty stiff but then steel- and ti-framebuilders are trying to compete with the carbon and the expectation many riders coming from carbon frames have. The 44mm option helps.

[John H.]

Frame size?
Type of frame?
Rider weight?
I had a 44mm headtube frame. I though it was more stiffness than I needed.
I am sub 150, medium frame size, and it was a road bike.

[gavingould]

i'm a big boy. it's great.

[carpediemracing]

At 180-200+ lbs I was on a SystemSix with a ginormous lower headset race. It was the best cornering bike I'd ever ridden. Better than my customs, better than anything I rode in the prior 8? years. Even at 155 lbs my Tsunami, with 1 1/8 top/bottom, was/is a noodle in corners compared to the SystemSix (using either a Reynolds Ouzo or currently a ENVE 2.0 fork).

If I could do it I'd get a tapered fork set up. I couldn't so I didn't.

As far as comfort I didn't notice anything really negative with the fork. I was good for 6-8 hours plus. It's more about the fork and tires I think. I used the same stem/bars/wheels/tires before and after the SystemSix, although I've since changed all of them.

Of course it could be the same for the lateral stiffness in corners but I think the ENVE 2.0 and the Ouzo are two really good forks. The flex must come from the steerer/crown area, and the wider fork should be more rigid.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by John H.

Frame size?
Type of frame?
Rider weight?
I had a 44mm headtube frame. I though it was more stiffness than I needed.
I am sub 150, medium frame size, and it was a road bike.

58-60 depending on the measurements (I'm a big kid.)
Road, something aggressive for the Saturday morning Donut ride hammerfest. I've got the all-day stage race bike. Looking for something a bit more lively.
195 on my way to 180. (See above.)

[Lionel]

Aluminum bike right ?

Then yes to 44 and tapered fork.

[John H.]

Sounds like a 44mm headtube with a tapered fork would be ideal for your intended use.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I'll put in a plug for matching the HT size to the rest of the pipes. I think 44 can look fine on bikes with really oversized tubes, but if the main triangle isn't fat enough, it just looks weird. I'm not sure it adds a ton to steering sharpness. I've had a tapered HT (on my Museeuw), and it cornered softer than my CAAD (straight 1.125). As others have said, I think a lot of that is in the fork and getting the rest of the geo right.

[abalone]

Interesting question. 44mm head tubes and tapered forks are stiffer, but weigh more than traditional skinnier headtubes.

For carbon, it's not a big deal because the bikes are so light anyway and it's easy for the big manufacturers to use less ply in the carbon layups to compensate for the additional weight.

Steel and Ti bikes take a big weight gain with 44mm headtubes and tapered steerers. Especially steel bikes where the only tapered steel steerer a custom builder can get easily is made by Paragon and it is HEAVY! Definitely overbuilt. Plus, steel and Ti 44mm headtubes weigh more than traditional skinny headtubes.

[John H.]

Not much of a difference in frame weight for ti.
The weight difference is more due to the different headset and fork.
A King Inset7 is not so light compared to a 11/8 King.

Originally Posted by abalone

Interesting question. 44mm head tubes and tapered forks are stiffer, but weigh more than traditional skinnier headtubes.

For carbon, it's not a big deal because the bikes are so light anyway and it's easy for the big manufacturers to use less ply in the carbon layups to compensate for the additional weight.

Steel and Ti bikes take a big weight gain with 44mm headtubes and tapered steerers. Especially steel bikes where the only tapered steel steerer a custom builder can get easily is made by Paragon and it is HEAVY! Definitely overbuilt. Plus, steel and Ti 44mm headtubes weigh more than traditional skinny headtubes.

[22Mike]

Originally Posted by John H.

Not much of a difference in frame weight for ti.
The weight difference is more due to the different headset and fork.
A King Inset7 is not so light compared to a 11/8 King.

Just to chime in on the weight gain issue: there's no getting around the fact that a 44mm head tube is going to add weight. On our bikes, here's where the differences show up:

• Head tube: our 160mm HT weighs 214g. I don't have a 1-1/8" HT of the same length handy, but I would estimate it at 150g. Gain: 64g.
• Headset: a Chris King i8 headset weighs 169g, while a 1-1/8" NoThreadset weighs 130g. Gain: 39g.
• Fork: Enve's 2.0 fork with a tapered 1-1/4" 350mm steerer weighs 368g, and the same fork with a straight steerer weighs 350g. Gain: 18g.

All told, the bigger head tube will add up to roughly 121g of extra weight on our 160mm HT example. Is it worth it? In my opinion, absolutely. The bigger head tube adds noticeable stiffness and steering precision up front, and the larger head tube also allows a larger down tube for better stiffness under power. For most riders, I would say the improved handling more than offsets the weight gain.

As for 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" tapered steerers, that's a difference in stiffness that I doubt is tangible. I've often heard people describe 1-1/2" tapered forks as harsher than 1-1/4" versions, but to be honest in my own experience I can't notice a difference that couldn't be chalked up to my imagination. With that in mind, my preference is the 1-1/4" tapered fork, mostly because the smaller lower headset race looks tidier than the 1-1/2" version. If there's a minor ride quality improvement with the 1-1/4" steerer, then that's a nice bonus.

Just my two cents!

[abalone]

I think that tapered steerers have taken over on all the new bikes from the big bike manufacturers. They are now more common on bike shop high-end bikes than straight steerers, unless you specifically order a custom frame and specify a straight steerer. So, I think going with a headtube that can accomodate a tapered fork steerer is a good idea to future proof.

You do take a weight penalty with a big fat head tube. Plus, if you get the fat head tube, then naturally you are going to go with appropriately proportioned larger diameter down tube, top tube, etc.. This is the reason why nearly every modern titanium frame with 44mm head tubes and appropriately oversized main tubes are heavier than classic skinny tubed titanium frames.

[John H.]

Yeah, I was thinking ti or aluminum when I suggested 44mm.
I would not do it on steel- too big of a difference in tube sizes.