RETUL wrong? Or not?

[Otium]

30ys plus riding road bikes as fast as I can.
I had a bike fit done by a fitter the old way, measuring, redwing and setup watching me ride on home trainer, tweaked. This was to check. Some changes and riding was fine. Someone convinced me a year or so later to go get a RETUL fit. So I proceeded. The fitter has good experience and fully knitted Retul system in the shop. Saddle height has 10mm less with RETUL and setback a whole 35mm less having knee well in front of pedal. Rides okay with more weight on hands, that makes sense I guess with 35mm move! Anyone have similar situation or even comments on these very different results ?
Thanks

[flying]

If riding 30+ years pain free & comfortable... I sure wouldn't change to lower & forward with more weight on my hands

[John H.]

Sorry- I mis-read. I just realized that the fits that you referenced were a year apart.

Has anything changed in the last year in terms of your gear or your body?

Retail is just a tool. Good fitters who are experienced with both fitting and retail can do a great job by using this tool. An inexperienced fitter using Retul may rely too heavily it.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by John H.

Sorry- I mis-read. I just realized that the fits that you referenced were a year apart.

Has anything changed in the last year in terms of your gear or your body?

Retail is just a tool. Good fitters who are experienced with both fitting and retail can do a great job by using this tool. An inexperienced fitter using Retul may rely too heavily it.

Thanks. Nothing changed at all. Confirm that in both setups I have no pains even on 100km plus rides at higher pace. Maybe a tad more power with the retul (I use PM).

[ap_az]

Originally Posted by Otium

Saddle height has 10mm less with RETUL and setback a whole 35mm less

Wow, my knees hurt just reading that!

RETUL is an interesting tool in the hands of an experienced fitter who can use it along with his eyes, your feedback, and knowledge of your specific bio mechanics to make a more informed decision. In all too many cases it's treated as gospel since it's "more accurate."

If I were in a similar situation and the fitter handed me those results I would be pressing hard for an in-depth explanation as to why the new numbers are correct and what I've been doing for the past 3 decades is wrong. If the explanation involves things like, "I'm compensating for this imbalance here and this change addresses that deficiency there," then I might give it a shot for a bit. If it's a lot of stammering and arm-waving (and general bs-ing) then I'm packing up my stuff and going home.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by ap_az

Wow, my knees hurt just reading that!

RETUL is an interesting tool in the hands of an experienced fitter who can use it along with his eyes, your feedback, and knowledge of your specific bio mechanics to make a more informed decision. In all too many cases it's treated as gospel since it's "more accurate."

If I were in a similar situation and the fitter handed me those results I would be pressing hard for an in-depth explanation as to why the new numbers are correct and what I've been doing for the past 3 decades is wrong. If the explanation involves things like, "I'm compensating for this imbalance here and this change addresses that deficiency there," then I might give it a shot for a bit. If it's a lot of stammering and arm-waving (and general bs-ing) then I'm packing up my stuff and going home.

Thanks. Indeed I did ask. Answer was that my femurs are short in proportion to my height. A great deal of time was spent tuning as I have a slight hip offset. If using the right leg then my saddle setback would be further back than left if used as reference. So he spent sometime tuning that. The guy is serious and seemingly knowledgeable.

[rice rocket]

We can't tell you over the internet whether or not Retul was used properly. The Retul "horror stories" have just as much weight as the success stories, except you don't hear about the latter because people don't post about good things anymore.

You paid the money, trying it for a few weeks isn't going to cause you a debilitating injury, so give it a shot?

[herb5998]

Retul should really be used as an additional tool with an experienced fitter, not just a "get the person to be in the green" zones based on the calculated optimal angles.

If the fit is relatively new, getting more time on it, and then reaching back out with changes, positive and negative to the fitter you used, they should offer a follow up within the timeframe of the fitting.

I had a Retul fit done in 2014 before they were acquired at the HQ in Boulder, great people and some good changes, though nothing earth shattering. Since then, there have been some small changes here and there, based on changes in shoes or handlebars, but for the most part, that setup still works for me as the baseline.

[mdeth1313]

If you have hip offset go see a (good) physical therapist. Bike fitters only deal with what they're presented with (you), not possible causes of your hip offset.

I learned this the hard way - fitter said I had a leg length discrepancy and put a shim on with some minor adjustments. Didn't help much. Eventually I ended up needing PT for something else and the therapist was able to get my legs even - functional vs structural.

The compensation could make it worse.

[ucdcrush]

Originally Posted by mdeth1313

I learned this the hard way - fitter said I had a leg length discrepancy and put a shim on with some minor adjustments. Didn't help much. Eventually I ended up needing PT for something else and the therapist was able to get my legs even - functional vs structural.

The compensation could make it worse.

How may I ask did the physical therapist address the discrepancy? Were there strengthening and/or stretching routines? I ask because my fitter gave me a shim and gave me some exercises and stretches to do.. with the idea being that eventually things would even out and the shim could come off.

[mdeth1313]

Originally Posted by ucdcrush

How may I ask did the physical therapist address the discrepancy? Were there strengthening and/or stretching routines? I ask because my fitter gave me a shim and gave me some exercises and stretches to do.. with the idea being that eventually things would even out and the shim could come off.

My PT told me NOT to use the shim, it only makes the issue worse. A good PT should be able to get your legs even if it's functional - getting it to stay is the issue. I still need the stretch/method she gave me.

For me it was a hip stretch followed by pulling on the opposite hip immediately following the stretch. In my case it wasn't a strength issue, it was a lack of flexibility. Unless the fitter is a PT, you might want to try to find a good one who can not only address and resolve, but give you the tools to stay level on your own. ( I got really lucky there)

[callmeishmael]

One interesting aside about functional leg length discrepancy. The bike fitter I saw says he sees it most in people who drive a lot, especially in those who drive an automatic. Simply spending less time sitting and a 2-3 minute daily stretching regime will make a big difference for most people.

[ridethecliche]

Originally Posted by callmeishmael

One interesting aside about functional leg length discrepancy. The bike fitter I saw says he sees it most in people who drive a lot, especially in those who drive an automatic. Simply spending less time sitting and a 2-3 minute daily stretching regime will make a big difference for most people.

Id believe it. I swear my right foot turns out more because of driving an auto a lot.

[whatshubdoc]

Isn't there something called a "fit window"? I'm presuming the changes your body underwent (sounds like you're still going through puberty) between the two fits allowed both positions to work. Not to say that they wouldn't before - but you are where you are and they both work.

The other thing that could explain both working is your core strength (amongst other variables). This would allow your pelvis and torso to remain relatively stable (between each position), having your arms take up the changes without much fuss.

Not a self proclaimed expert by any means but I've been tweaking my setup lately; dropped saddle by 20mm and increased setback by 35mm. Similar power, front end stayed about the same, a little more comfort. *shrug* Still poking away.

[ripvanrando]

Retul about 6 weeks ago pushed my saddle all the way forward around 40mm and thus about 4mm down. Added 35 mm more stem. Less weight on the saddle, more on the hands, and higher cadence.