Need an affordable used commuter car- what should I get?

[Ralph]

I realize there is a foreign bias about vehicles on this forum. But consider the same type of used domestic vehicle may be about 1/2 the price of these popular vehicles. And lots of what breaks on these cars has already been repaired.

Example: I "inherited" my MIL's 2008 Mercury Milan. A Premier Version. Means it's got a moon roof, leather (mostly fake) seating, and a nice satellite radio (Sirius 3 years for $79), etc. An orphan car. It currently has 54,000 miles on it....and is maybe worth $3000. Since I've had it....have fixed a door latch, electric window motor, and a couple other cheaply made items (I think). Plus normal fix and repair items.

But the 2.3 liter engine and transmission is exactly same combination Ford put in all those Transit Connects that run around Europe for 200,000-300,000 miles. And the car runs and drives great. Did I mention it's worth about nothing.

And sure....I would rather have a nice Accord, Camry, Acura, Lexus, etc....of this age and mileage. But not for 2-3 times the money. There are lots of unloved vehicles out there, without buying everyone's favorite used car.

My Dad was in the used car business. He always said....if buying new look for vehicles that depreciate the least. If buying used....look for vehicles that have depreciated the most and are in good condition.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by Ralph

My Dad was in the used car business. He always said....if buying new look for vehicles that depreciate the least. If buying used....look for vehicles that have depreciated the most and are in good condition.

So buying new: Toyota, Lexus. Buying used: Mercedes.

Got it.

all kidding aside............that's good advice

[cinema]

Keep in mind fleet vehicles like livery/taxi drivers regularly get 4-500k miles out of the toyota v6 engines (camry/highlander/sienna). Theres a reason they use those vehicles they last a long time and are reliable compared to cheaper options

[Ralph]

To answer your original question.....Civics are usually reliable cars, even with some miles on them.

However.....if I was in your situation.....I'm not sure I would buy a used car. I don't think, contrary to general opinion, used cars are always cheaper to drive. Can depend on the situation.

If you buy a used vehicle with 75,000-80,000 miles on it....about half of the car is used up.....so you are only buying about half a car....and you are buying the part that is beginning to need some parts or repairs. And even if just tires, brakes, maybe some electronic items next couple years.....that can easily average $200-$300 per month....and maybe more if something expensive breaks (transmission?).

For $200-$300 per month.....you can lease or buy a new base version of a fairly nice car.....Civic, Fit, HRV, Corolla, Kia, Hyundai, etcc and get all the new safety equipment....get a new car warranty, and start off with new tires and everything. If your situation remains the same....and you like the car....just buy it from the lease or keep paying if you buy it. If not, give it back.

At any rate....If I were you, I would not assume common "wisdom" is always so. Used cars are not always cheaper. I would just get a new car for $200-300 hundred dollars a month....look for the advertised deals. And spend nothing else for at least 3 years.

(they can be cheaper if you buy a fixer upper for about nothing, and drive it a long time....which you said you didn't want to do)

[nickl]

Originally Posted by cinema

Keep in mind fleet vehicles like livery/taxi drivers regularly get 4-500k miles out of the toyota v6 engines (camry/highlander/sienna). Theres a reason they use those vehicles they last a long time and are reliable compared to cheaper options

Not sure about your location but in the northeast cabbies overwhelmingly prefer 4cyl versions of the models you mention when available. Not possible for Siennas (since around 2013) but that’s the case for Camry and Highlanders and hybrids are favored esp in NYC.

[BobbyJones]

Originally Posted by azrider

So buying new: Toyota, Lexus. Buying used: Mercedes.

Got it.

all kidding aside............that's good advice

And for our next lesson, we'll take a look at why some cars depreciate more than others

[mtechnica]

Leasing makes sense except the mileage limit can be an issue.

[mtechnica]

You can lease a Chevy bolt right now for like 250 or buy one with like 10k off and 0% apr FYI

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Leasing makes sense except the mileage limit can be an issue.

that's true....lots of miles can run up the cost of a lease. But....lots of miles make the car you buy cost more also....depreciates more.

I'm an investor. basically live off investments. I hate buying all of a vehicle, when I'm not planning to use it for it's whole life. I also dislike buying anything I know will lose at least half it's value in 3-5 years.

When I lease....I usually go for the 10,000 mile per year price......and if I drive 15,000 per year....settle up at end. Or buy it, and not have to settle up. What I'm looking to do is drive the vehicle for about nothing, invest the money, and settle up when I'm done.

I once had a dealership (a client of mine) told me to pick a new car off his lot (BMW), drive it for a year....and at end of year settle up with him for miles driven. My kind of deal!

[cinema]

i just had to help navigate my neighbors out of a lease. it is a horrible and predatory lending behavior if you are not wealthy. add up down payment/monthly/PLUS RETURN FEES. when they returned the vehicle were charged thousands in damages despite it not being so bad at all (they had kids, it was a bit messy inside and had some crayon markings etc. you are at the mercy of the dealership. then the dealership pockets most of that fee, turns around and sells it 'certified' for way more than its worth, makes even more money on the next owners financing, etc.

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by cinema

i just had to help navigate my neighbors out of a lease. it is a horrible and predatory lending behavior if you are not wealthy. add up down payment/monthly/PLUS RETURN FEES. when they returned the vehicle were charged thousands in damages despite it not being so bad at all (they had kids, it was a bit messy inside and had some crayon markings etc. you are at the mercy of the dealership. then the dealership pockets most of that fee, turns around and sells it 'certified' for way more than its worth, makes even more money on the next owners financing, etc.

They could have just bought the car out of the lease without returning it, or the dealership seeing it. Cleaned it up....scratch and dent people, detailed, etc.....then sold it themselves.

Without having money for these options....leasing is a more expensive way to own a car. It's only cheaper for some people....who have other more profitable uses for their money. Unfortunately so many get sucked into these deals without understanding how it works. No free lunch....if cheaper up front....you pay at end.

[ronlau]

Originally Posted by doomridesout

My family needs to bite the bullet and get a second car, mostly for me to commute on days I can't ride and to travel for work. It won't need to be a gear-hauler or adventuremobile, although those things are a bonus. Being able to run two child seats in the back is a bonus too. We're looking in the $8000-9000 ballpark (in the California used car market). What should I get? I'm not savvy with car mechanics, so don't tell me to find a deal that just needs a little DIY work in the garage.

I just saw Hertz filed for bankruptcy protection and they have some cheap vehicles... but they're the budget-line Nissan Versa and Sentra, which have a spotty reputation for reliability and some aspects are not well reviewed. I'd prefer to get a Toyota or Honda to serve this need instead, but they hold value much better than the Nissans and are out of our price range in comparable mileages. Is a higher mileage Honda Civic a better buy than a lower mileage Nissan or Hyundai?

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

Might I suggest you try to find a used Benz E320 Wagon?

My mechanic suggested that to me and I bought one since. Below is the list of reason why I like it.

1. Reliable engine.
2. Fit a bike without taking wheels off.
3. 3rd row rear facing seats for kids.
4. Insurance and dmv registration is low compare with newer cars.
5. Almost 100% analog. Which I love.

Mine is year 2000, cost me less than set of new Carbon wheels.

Which part of North CA are you in? I live in Bay Area and you can come check it out yourself.

Ron

[C40_guy]

The auto industry is one of the most consumable/obsolete industries around. Companies constantly tell us that our year old car is obsolete and must be replaced. Volvo was once taken to task by an autowriter for not having changed the design of the taillight on their wagon for several years.

So...people choose to go into deep hock for a new car...loans on new cars now average 69 months. On used cars, they average 65 months.

Or they choose a 39 month rental (lease), where they pay through the nose for the privilege of driving a new car, and then at the end of the lease, they have to do it all over again. They've built no equity.

For the past two months all of those lease holders have paid anywhere from $10 to $50 a day for the privilege of not driving their car. (plus parking and insurance)

I buy older German cars that have gotten to the latter part of the depreciation curve, typically around 100K miles. Yea, they may not have Apple CarPlay, but they do have sumptuous leather interiors, handle great, and cruise down the highway in comfort. I pay nothing in carrying costs, and I occasionally pay a private mechanic to fix something.

Squeeze yourself out of a new Civic and test drive a ten year old Audi A6 or MB 300 series. Either of these will cost you less than half of that new Civic and be far more enjoyable to drive.

Also have more room to carry bikes.

/rant

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

The auto industry is one of the most consumable/obsolete industries around. Companies constantly tell us that our year old car is obsolete and must be replaced. Volvo was once taken to task by an autowriter for not having changed the design of the taillight on their wagon for several years.

So...people choose to go into deep hock for a new car...loans on new cars now average 69 months. On used cars, they average 65 months.

Or they choose a 39 month rental (lease), where they pay through the nose for the privilege of driving a new car, and then at the end of the lease, they have to do it all over again. They've built no equity.

For the past two months all of those lease holders have paid anywhere from $10 to $50 a day for the privilege of not driving their car. (plus parking and insurance)

I buy older German cars that have gotten to the latter part of the depreciation curve, typically around 100K miles. Yea, they may not have Apple CarPlay, but they do have sumptuous leather interiors, handle great, and cruise down the highway in comfort. I pay nothing in carrying costs, and I occasionally pay a private mechanic to fix something.

Squeeze yourself out of a new Civic and test drive a ten year old Audi A6 or MB 300 series. Either of these will cost you less than half of that new Civic and be far more enjoyable to drive.

Also have more room to carry bikes.

/rant

I don't disagree at all. My son drives an older BMW. it's not trouble free, but labor is labor at his independent shop....whether on his car or cheap car, and BMW parts from online source or local parts store not too bad. But....you have to want to do that.

[zetroc]

Don't get a Prius. Get a Camry or Corolla. With regular maintenance, they run forever.