OT - Pennsylvania abuses.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by colker

If any member of these institutions abuse the needed then it could not be more wrong.. but it does not say the entire institution is corrupt or evil or even decadent.

I think they point here is that there is evidence the institution is, indeed, corrupt.

[s4life]

Originally Posted by colker

"Hardly any 'fact'....."
There has been an increase in suicide numbers over the last 15 yrs. If that´s not a spiritual black hole then nothing else is..

"You don't need any organized religion to be spiritual."
Sometimes you do need a place somewhere to rest your spirit and regain strength. Some people are troubled. If we had a daily pace guided by spirituality and not power hunger, religion would be gone already.

hmm spirituality and religion are not the same thing, try meditation.

[drewski]

Originally Posted by colker

Cino Bartali and franciscan monks helped save jews from the holocaust. Bartali would smuggle information while cycling across Italy.
Not only them.... other italian churches did it as well.

There are other sides to the Catholic church than sex abuse and corruption. That said i am out.

Gino the "pious" was a beautiful man.

[93KgBike]

Colker, until the end of WW1 the Pope was an emperor with a standing army. It took the invasion of the French to depose that monarchy and establish the modern Italian State. That right there is the source of the anti-catholic sentiment you speak of, and protestantism grew out of centuries of different nations confronting the Vatican's use of violence and terror to control people and amass wealth. There is a long and sordid history you've not read which has nothing at all to do with the gospels or faith. Just as an institution that has secreted the habitual sexual abuse of children by its leaders has no basis in the gospels or faith.

Can you imagine ANY other organization which had 300 "pedophile predators" in its leadership being allowed to exist? ANY?

[Mikej]

Just imagine if this was about Muslims and terrorism, everybody would loose their $hit -

[Plum Hill]

Local Catholic priest was arrested for possession of kiddie porn last year. Someone got him out on bail and he’s has been kept out of site. No trial, no sentence.
And he wasn’t the first in the area.

Cafeteria Catholic: one picks and chooses what they want to believe in, just like picking the food items one wants in a cafeteria line.

I was raised in the United Church of Christ. During confirmation class, the minister said there were two ways to lose membership in the church. I bit. What are those two things?
1) commit a heinous crime against the church.
OK, I can see that.
2) give no offering for a period of ‘x’ years.
Whoa! So it’s all about money?
In a small town there aren’t many secrets. The biggest sinners and wife beaters were always in church, many days in the front rows.
Nixed organized religion and make every attempt to live my life by the Golden Rule and the Theory of Reciprocity.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

I think they point here is that there is evidence the institution is, indeed, corrupt.

Exactly! How many times has this problem surfaced within the "church"??

[johnmdesigner]

The Inquisition and the Crusades were supposed to fix all these problems.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by johnmdesigner

The Inquisition and the Crusades were supposed to fix all these problems.

No one expected that.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Davist

Nice thread name.. I get the locale was in PA, don't think this has been an isolated issue here, so as one of your friends in PA, well..

I didn't mean any offense toward PA. My point was that this last episode of such disgusting behavior has pushed me over the edge. PA just happened to be where the news came from. You're in the clear now because Philly parishes were not in on the investigations...

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Just imagine if this was about Muslims and terrorism, everybody would loose their $hit -

Some of you are missing the point. This thread is not about religion per se, any more than Campy vs Shimano threads are. No one has disparaged practitioners of the faith and I would hope that wouldn't happen. It's no one's business how you choose to interact with the divine/unknown or from what framework you choose to do so. This is about an institution that has protected it's "employees" from the atrocities they have committed in the years and done so in such reprehensible ways that it boggles the mind how it has been continually allowed to keep the shop open so to speak. Again, no daycare with that record would be open and everyone involved would be in prison. There are several brands that for my own personal reasons, I choose not to utilize, participate in events associated with or spend my money for. The Catholic Church is now one of those for me.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by goonster

No one expected that.

[notsew]

Originally Posted by colker

The catholic church fought brutal dictatorships everywhere from central america to africa. Priests and nuns were killed, tortured and raped for protecting the miserable.
Priests risked their lives saving jewish families from nazi extermination camps.
The catholic church was the only help for campesinos/ native americans in Mexico during the 19th century: wasn´t for the missions and communal lands, thousands would die of hunger.

I am not saying tehy are better than any other human: they are flawed. Otoh there is a huge anti catholic propaganda in the United States and it´s not new. America is protestant.

It´s easy to preach morality against religion but fact is we are living a huge spiritual black hole.
I have the utmost respect for religious catholics:i´ve seen them go out of their ways to help others just for mercy. Those in need would have a worse fate if depended only on secular assistance, to say the least. Mercy is one of the most precious notions in humanity and brought to us by the church.

I don´t come often to the forum anymore but i had to say this: you guys are completely wrong in despising the entire church because there is more to catholic faith than the sexual abuse.

As has been said, good people are good people.

I'd also point out that the corporate church didn't exactly embrace the liberation theology and activities of a lot of those groups in the global south.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Chris

Some of you are missing the point. This thread is not about religion per se, any more than Campy vs Shimano threads are. No one has disparaged practitioners of the faith and I would hope that wouldn't happen. It's no one's business how you choose to interact with the divine/unknown or from what framework you choose to do so. This is about an institution that has protected it's "employees" from the atrocities they have committed in the years and done so in such reprehensible ways that it boggles the mind how it has been continually allowed to keep the shop open so to speak. Again, no daycare with that record would be open and everyone involved would be in prison. There are several brands that for my own personal reasons, I choose not to utilize, participate in events associated with or spend my money for. The Catholic Church is now one of those for me.

I agree Chris, and that's the main reason i didnt close the thread. We should be able to separate our outrage from the point that this institution happens to be a religious one. the way i see it, it is not much different than if ABC or NBC was protecting a news anchor who is a known sexual predator instead of allowing them to be prosecuted under the law.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I agree Chris, and that's the main reason i didnt close the thread. We should be able to separate our outrage from the point that this institution happens to be a religious one. the way i see it, it is not much different than if ABC or NBC was protecting a news anchor who is a known sexual predator instead of allowing them to be prosecuted under the law.

Thank you