OT - Pennsylvania abuses.

[colker]

The catholic church fought brutal dictatorships everywhere from central america to africa. Priests and nuns were killed, tortured and raped for protecting the miserable.
Priests risked their lives saving jewish families from nazi extermination camps.
The catholic church was the only help for campesinos/ native americans in Mexico during the 19th century: wasn´t for the missions and communal lands, thousands would die of hunger.

I am not saying tehy are better than any other human: they are flawed. Otoh there is a huge anti catholic propaganda in the United States and it´s not new. America is protestant.

It´s easy to preach morality against religion but fact is we are living a huge spiritual black hole.
I have the utmost respect for religious catholics:i´ve seen them go out of their ways to help others just for mercy. Those in need would have a worse fate if depended only on secular assistance, to say the least. Mercy is one of the most precious notions in humanity and brought to us by the church.

I don´t come often to the forum anymore but i had to say this: you guys are completely wrong in despising the entire church because there is more to catholic faith than the sexual abuse.

[cash05458]

Originally Posted by parco

I'm not Catholic but I thought Priests took a vow of chastity. No?

When I was doing my Phd at a Catholic university in Europe I had many friends who were priests and there studying for higher degrees...they had been sent there by the Church for further education...they thought it frankly hilarious that I thought the same thing and actually believed that to be the case with "most" priests...some straight, some gay but the overwhelming consensus was that having sexual relationships was fairly predominant among them...

[RFC]

I am not Catholic and do not subscribe to any specific faith. Yes, this is horrible and I'm sure as more comes out from the report it will get worse and worse.

The Vatican has not yet responded. In my mind, the Pope has to respond with a loud voice and drastic actions. Can the Vatican take over a morally bankrupt diocese?

[cash05458]

Colker: "Priests risked their lives saving jewish families from nazi extermination camps."

I am sure that might be true...but you might want also to look up Pius Xll and the overall institutional response to the Holocaust...it's not good reading I can assure you.

[drewski]

Originally Posted by colker

The catholic church fought brutal dictatorships everywhere from central america to africa. Priests and nuns were killed, tortured and raped for protecting the miserable.
Priests risked their lives saving jewish families from nazi extermination camps.
The catholic church was the only help for campesinos/ native americans in Mexico during the 19th century: wasn´t for the missions and communal lands, thousands would die of hunger.

I am not saying tehy are better than any other human: they are flawed. Otoh there is a huge anti catholic propaganda in the United States and it´s not new. America is protestant.

It´s easy to preach morality against religion but fact is we are living a huge spiritual black hole.
I have the utmost respect for religious catholics:i´ve seen them go out of their ways to help others just for mercy. Those in need would have a worse fate if depended only on secular assistance, to say the least. Mercy is one of the most precious notions in humanity and brought to us by the church.

I don´t come often to the forum anymore but i had to say this: you guys are completely wrong in despising the entire church because there is more to catholic faith than the sexual abuse.

Going to get this off my chest before the thread gets shut down.
The Catholic Church in Spain and Ireland supported Spain under Franco.
Catholic church gave comfort to death squads in Argentina in the 1970's.

Looks like Bergoglio -Pope Francis was a pretty alright man of the cloth when stuff was going down in the dirty war in Argentina.

https://nypost.com/2014/03/13/pope-f...-death-squads/

[joosttx]

My simple take is this: The Church and the people that did and hid these sick crimes need to pay. No matter how good you or your institution is to humankind it does not absolve.

We need to open the statute of limitations for molestation and racketeering crimes and (Im not sure this is the case) allow The Church to be sued in civil court by victims.

I have written an email to my senators and congresspersons today. Perhaps if you are angered by this sick abuse of power you will too.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by colker

The catholic church fought brutal dictatorships everywhere from central america to africa. Priests and nuns were killed, tortured and raped for protecting the miserable.
Priests risked their lives saving jewish families from nazi extermination camps.
The catholic church was the only help for campesinos/ native americans in Mexico during the 19th century: wasn´t for the missions and communal lands, thousands would die of hunger.

I am not saying tehy are better than any other human: they are flawed. Otoh there is a huge anti catholic propaganda in the United States and it´s not new. America is protestant.

It´s easy to preach morality against religion but fact is we are living a huge spiritual black hole.
I have the utmost respect for religious catholics:i´ve seen them go out of their ways to help others just for mercy. Those in need would have a worse fate if depended only on secular assistance, to say the least. Mercy is one of the most precious notions in humanity and brought to us by the church.

I don´t come often to the forum anymore but i had to say this: you guys are completely wrong in despising the entire church because there is more to catholic faith than the sexual abuse.

Ummm.....yeah need to do a whole lot more looking at the history of the Catholic Church. It's not just "American" prejudice.

And good people are good people irregardless of religion.

[BobO]

Originally Posted by RFC

Can the Vatican take over a morally bankrupt diocese?

Probably, the Pope's rule is law on earth and in heaven, so he likely can do whatever is deemed necessary. That being said, the organization of the church is still feudal in nature. It would ordinarily be the Cardinal's duty to deal with the Bishop of the corrupt diocese before the Pope became involved.

When I was an altar boy I was perilously close to one of these abuse incidents. I was not abused, but at least two of the boys I knew were. The offending priest was simply moved to another church as a way of making the problem go away. I don't pretend to know the answers, but the incidents are far too common for there not to be a systemic issue that at least enables the behavior. It's difficult to say that the church doesn't serve a positive purpose for a lot of people, but it's also hard to ignore the damage that is and has been done.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by joosttx

I have written an email to my senators and congresspersons today. Perhaps if you are angered by this sick abuse of power you will too.

agreed and will do.

[cash05458]

Originally Posted by RFC

I am not Catholic and do not subscribe to any specific faith. Yes, this is horrible and I'm sure as more comes out from the report it will get worse and worse.

The Vatican has not yet responded. In my mind, the Pope has to respond with a loud voice and drastic actions. Can the Vatican take over a morally bankrupt diocese?

yes, of course they can...one interesting thing is that if you get caught embezzling money from the church guess what they do? They call the police and you will go to jail. They will do their utmost to make sure you are prosecuted by the authorities. Rape a child? Get transferred somewhere else to protect you and ensure that you might continue.

Sorry, but that is a pedo ring...

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by colker

Mercy is one of the most precious notions in humanity and brought to us by the church.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by colker

The catholic church fought brutal dictatorships everywhere from central america to africa. Priests and nuns were killed, tortured and raped for protecting the miserable.
Priests risked their lives saving jewish families from nazi extermination camps.
The catholic church was the only help for campesinos/ native americans in Mexico during the 19th century: wasn´t for the missions and communal lands, thousands would die of hunger.

I am not saying tehy are better than any other human: they are flawed. Otoh there is a huge anti catholic propaganda in the United States and it´s not new. America is protestant.

It´s easy to preach morality against religion but fact is we are living a huge spiritual black hole.
I have the utmost respect for religious catholics:i´ve seen them go out of their ways to help others just for mercy. Those in need would have a worse fate if depended only on secular assistance, to say the least. Mercy is one of the most precious notions in humanity and brought to us by the church.

I don´t come often to the forum anymore but i had to say this: you guys are completely wrong in despising the entire church because there is more to catholic faith than the sexual abuse.

It’s more than we’ll documented that the Catholic Church made deals with the Nazis to look the other way. I don’t know that it’s record in human rights is in anyway stellar or even that the good outweighs the bad as an aggregate.

[cash05458]

As this is being discussed and no, I don't hope things get heated...but here is a personal story. I had a good friend in Belgium who had been abused by his local village priest when he was a kid...my friend was in his late 40's at this point. The Church did nothing tho many had spoken about it.

One night he and I were in a bar together and the tv was on...local news told the story that day of an old priest who was murdered in his village by some fellow who just walked up and stabbed him to death. Turns out the killer was a guy who had been abused by the same priest and couldn't take it anymore.

My friend looked at me and with a slight smile told me that in fact this was the same priest who had abused him as a child...so it goes I suppose...

[colker]

Originally Posted by Chris

It’s more than we’ll documented that the Catholic Church made deals with the Nazis to look the other way. I don’t know that it’s record in human rights is in anyway stellar or even that the good outweighs the bad as an aggregate.

Cino Bartali and franciscan monks helped save jews from the holocaust. Bartali would smuggle information while cycling across Italy.
Not only them.... other italian churches did it as well.

There are other sides to the Catholic church than sex abuse and corruption. That said i am out.

[cash05458]

Originally Posted by colker

Cino Bartali and franciscan monks helped save jews from the holocaust. Bartali would smuggle information while cycling across Italy.
Not only them.... other italian churches did it as well.

There are other sides to the Catholic church than sex abuse and corruption. That said i am out.

Colker...I don't think anyone at all here is saying that there aren't good and moral Catholics who do the right thing...not at all...rather, it is a discussion of how this institution has behaved via some very serious things...