Thoughts on what's going on? Cramping

[makoti]

Not your normal, run of the mill, dehydrated cramping. Geographical cramping.
I ride on a scenic stretch of road, mountainous for where I live. Route is abut 45-60 miles, depending on where I turn around. On the way back, at the bottom of the last climb, I cramp. EVERY time. Same spot, same upper thigh cramp. Like someone is sticking a knife into my thigh. Doesn't matter how far I've ridden, temps, humidity, I cramp. I stop about a mile before the climb, at the start of the downhill leading into it, to eat, stretch, drink some pickle juice, I still cramp. This has been going on for a few seasons now. And I don't get these cramps on any other rides, regardless of any of those factors.
How do I get through this? I hate to say it's all in my head, but...
I'm toying with the idea of driving out there, and doing repeats on the climb
and ONLY the climb until I get past it. Suggestions? Anyone ever had anything like this happen?

[weisan]

"You must conquer your fear..."

[rnhood]

Don’t back off or rest just before the climb. Keep a steady tempo as you go through the dip and start the climb.

[cmg]

"I'm toying with the idea of driving out there, and doing repeats on the climb
and ONLY the climb until I get past it. Suggestions? Anyone ever had anything like this happen?"

Club had a 40 mile route that on the last 3 miles went over these steep (for me) rollers, 4 of them in a row. I would get progressively slower until either the cramp or the bonk would happen. I had to change the way i made the climb before that went away. i would recommend starting 3-5 miles away from this climb so you could be warmed up. Then trying going up in different gears/speeds or timing your pedaling.

[redir]

I read an article last year or so about cramping. Basically they have no idea why people cramp and they went through all kinds of test. The final conclusion in the article was that cramping is mental. Something happens in the body that sends a signal to the brain and it just decides to torture the body for unknown reasons. I have no idea if it was peer reviews but it was interesting study.

[carpediemracing]

Do you always stop before the climb, or is that part of trying to defeat the cramp?

I'd do repeats of the 5-10 miles *before* the climb. The climb isn't the problem, it's whatever is happening before the climb.

If you're stopping before the climb *every time*, then that's probably the problem. Stop much earlier, don't stop, or stop later.

Part of it might be that it's very easy just after the stop, downhill as you described it. If you descend the same each time (weight on one leg, coasting, certain amount of weight on legs, etc etc etc) that's probably the trigger after the stop. Try varying your descent approach, like if you're coasting then pedal, if you're spinning then pedal slow (even if it's just "air pedaling") or coast, do something you're not doing now.

The cramp seems very linked to your actions just before the cramp, since they seem to be repeated every time. So change one thing at a time to see what improves it (assuming you still stop). I'd start with getting whatever you got to eat/drink the time before but then approaching the descent differently.

(Based on my own personal experience if I coast with my legs in a fixed position for any amount of time, especially if I'm supporting my body weight, then the chances of cramping go up. I try to soft pedal pretty much any time I'm not pedaling, the only exceptions being when I'm stretching, going into a tuck on a descent, or doing a track stand at a light. The latter is the toughest on my legs, it's as close as I get to cramping even if I'm otherwise fine. This leads me to guess that you're supporting your weight on your leg on the descent which means coasting with butt off the saddle.)

[makoti]

Originally Posted by rnhood

Don’t back off or rest just before the climb. Keep a steady tempo as you go through the dip and start the climb.

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

Do you always stop before the climb, or is that part of trying to defeat the cramp?

I'd do repeats of the 5-10 miles *before* the climb. The climb isn't the problem, it's whatever is happening before the climb.

If you're stopping before the climb *every time*, then that's probably the problem. Stop much earlier, don't stop, or stop later.

Part of it might be that it's very easy just after the stop, downhill as you described it. If you descend the same each time (weight on one leg, coasting, certain amount of weight on legs, etc etc etc) that's probably the trigger after the stop. Try varying your descent approach, like if you're coasting then pedal, if you're spinning then pedal slow (even if it's just "air pedaling") or coast, do something you're not doing now.

The cramp seems very linked to your actions just before the cramp, since they seem to be repeated every time. So change one thing at a time to see what improves it (assuming you still stop). I'd start with getting whatever you got to eat/drink the time before but then approaching the descent differently.

(Based on my own personal experience if I coast with my legs in a fixed position for any amount of time, especially if I'm supporting my body weight, then the chances of cramping go up. I try to soft pedal pretty much any time I'm not pedaling, the only exceptions being when I'm stretching, going into a tuck on a descent, or doing a track stand at a light. The latter is the toughest on my legs, it's as close as I get to cramping even if I'm otherwise fine. This leads me to guess that you're supporting your weight on your leg on the descent which means coasting with butt off the saddle.)

No, I don't always do the same thing. I've tried several different things. Stop, stretch, don't stop, eat before, eat way before, pickle juice before, nothing seems to make a difference.
The run up to the climb IS very easy, as in all down hill. I usually coast, pedal some, but it's a long enough, fast enough DH that constant pressure on the pedals isn't really possible. I am usually fairly tucked for the decent. I will try a few things & see if I am unconsciously creating a problem simply in the way I approach the climb. It's gotta be something.

Originally Posted by redir

I read an article last year or so about cramping. Basically they have no idea why people cramp and they went through all kinds of test. The final conclusion in the article was that cramping is mental. Something happens in the body that sends a signal to the brain and it just decides to torture the body for unknown reasons. I have no idea if it was peer reviews but it was interesting study.

I am thinking it might be something like this, but I know you should be able to break the cycle. I'd be more inclined to think it is physical issues, either nutrition or technique if it happened on any other climb as well, or on other rides. Just this spot on this ride. It's very rare I cramp otherwise.

[Tony]

Need more salt.
During a hard ride coming up on the 40-45 mile mark I start to feel that familiar burst, pulsating shock that starts out in waves.
Consuming more salt is the only thing that has helped me, pickle juice, various supplements.....nothing really made a difference outside of more salt.

[unterhausen]

I don't want to eat salt because of blood pressure, and potassium because of BP meds that already promote potassium blood levels. What I do is take an enduralyte capsule and put it under my tongue until I think it's going to melt. Probably lasts 15 minutes or so. I have found that stops cramping better than swallowing the enduralyte. Which just proves that cramping is at least 90 percent half mental.

Obviously YMMV

[Spaghetti Legs]

I’d think about your tuck position on that descent. When I’m tucked in tight for a long time, I can feel it in my hip flexors. Maybe something to do with essentially holding a prolonged tonic position in a fatigued muscle and then recruiting it into sudden kinetic action. Maybe experiment with more upright position and soft pedaling on that descent.

[zap]

What grade and length. Have you ever started the climb out of the saddle.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by zap

What grade and length. Have you ever started the climb out of the saddle.

2 miles, maybe 6-8%? When this hits, I'm JUST starting the climb so I don't think so.

[oldguy00]

OK....
We've been through this sort of question A LOT over on slowtwitch, and it has been researched to death.

SO...barring any actual medical condition which likely there is none:

1. You are going too hard before the climb.

2. See #1.

Thats it. Your legs are cramping because they are telling you enough. Even if you felt like you took it easy before the climb (and when I say 'before the climb', I mean the entire ride leading up to it, not just the couple km's before it), you didn't take it easy -enough- and thus your legs are cramping at that point.
You don't need pickle juice (I've tried that too).
You don't need salt tabs (I've tried that too).

On your next ride, prove me wrong. Ride easier. If you just have a basic GPS/cyclocomputer, average 2 mph slower or so. If you have a power meter, average 15% lower power output for the entire ride leading up to the climb.

The answer to getting back to usual speed without cramping is likely to add ride volume. Get your legs used to riding longer, and then slowly increase the output level.

Anyway, yeah, please try the ride again at a noticeably easier pace, and see your legs don't cramp at the hill.

[robt57]

Try some Calmag tablets. Bet that will help. I keep with on long hard rides in case. When lots of water dilutes down your minerals, salt or calcium will remedy. I chew a few when I can't even pedal the times I screw up my electrolytes, not frequent occurrence, but have with.

I also in heat add some baking soda to my mix, it may be hard on the gag factor if you use too much. But slows the onset of lactic acid threshold at the risk of puking if you use too much.

Band Aide until you figure out what is what at least.


Plus, other questions might be related to quads being the place you are cramping. Saddle to too low? Cleats too far back on shoe. Cleat/foot hot spots making you pull your stokes, etc etc

[zap]

Originally Posted by makoti

2 miles, maybe 6-8%? When this hits, I'm JUST starting the climb so I don't think so.

Take it easy on the ride to the climb, eat a 'nana along with a few sips of water while sitting up on the way down to the climb.....if the road is smooth, etc. Really, just try sitting up some as spaghetti legs posted.

Then as the road levels off and starts to go up hill, get in the drops and just crush it out of the saddle in a 53/14 or whatever for the first quarter mile or so then settle into an easier gear tapping it out at a higher cadence. Really get into a total effu attitude at the start of the climb.

You might want to work the bad out of your upper thigh by using a medium size foam ball.